D&D (2024) Humanoids in the MM...

[dave2008]

Because they did it with everything in 4e that had more than one statblock. 4e's naming conventions for monsters were so consistent it was memed.

And they have always done that in 5e. There are 7 gnolls in 5e (prior to the 2024 MM at least) and they all have different names. The only difference is that there is one simply called a gnoll. Same with orc, goblins, etc. Will that go away, possibly. I originally thought it wouldn't because of backward compatibility. But now I think the conversion section of the MM may handle that, we will see.

 

[dave2008]

Fair enough. You mentioned "core rules" though. Core rules for what game?

For me that would be D&D as that is the game I am most likely to play. However, that is really irrelevant. My point was it is not an issue of trust of the company or the designers because the hope is predicated on getting it correct. I don't hope someone implements DR poorly. My hope always assumes, whatever game, whatever company, the result is what I want. Otherwise the hope is not fulfilled.

 

[MechaTarrasque]

I suspect we won't see any humanoids in the MM except as examples for the NPC's. I do hope they expand the NPC's significantly, and I wouldn't mind if there was a list of "feats" for lack of a better word to make an NPC more Lolth-specific, Gruumish-specific, or Tiamat-specific, etc. One "feat" per NPC to keep things simple.

I wouldn't mind if they split the "you are a person who just happens to turn into a wolf" weres into fey, and the "you got bit by a monster, and now under the full moon, you try to murder everyone around you" weres as fiends or monstrosities. I would even be good with the fey weres having some kind of ritual to turn the odd "deserving" humanoid into a fey were, as long as the "only bothered by silver weapons" was limited to the fiend/monstrosity weres.

 

[TravDoc42]

I wouldn't be surprised if the grimlocks are Aberrations

 

[dave2008]

I suspect we won't see any humanoids in the MM except as examples for the NPC's.

That may be, but I am not sure how they would do that. It would be leaving a lot of classic threats out of the game. However, they did make this statement:

"The stat blocks of monsters with the Humanoid creature type have been redesigned to represent any Humanoid species. Now, these stat blocks include distinct mechanics aligned with a certain role or profession. So, whether you're introducing your player characters to a charismatic drow performer or a questing goliath knight, you can find inspiration for your NPCs."

So it seems they are integrating NPCs and Humanoids in some way. I just don't understand how yet.

 

[Yaarel]

I prefer the Lycanthropes take the Beast type. Being a "Werewolf" is about becoming a wolf. It is Primal magic, but conveys the identity of a natural wolf. In their Humanoid form, they are Humanoid, of course, but even then I can see them remaining a kind of Beast.

 

[Yaarel]

I love and appreciate the Goblin taking the Fey type.

 

[Yaarel]

Various thoughts:

The category of a "Monstrosity" (aka Magical Beast) seems less and less useful. Either it is an actual Beast and specific to the Material Plane, or else it is beastlike and specific to an other plane, like Fey or Celestial.

Kenku, Lizardfolk, and Thri-kreen, can be Beast.

Given their concept, Yuan Ti could well be Fiend.

Orc is perplexing, where etymology suggests a Shadowfell-touched Giant. But the 2024 Orc is clearly Humanoid.

Dragonborn should be both Dragon and Humanoid. They literally hatched from a Dragon egg, and being Humanoid is the point of their creation.

The 2024 version of the Feywild is a "parallel dimension" that appears disconnected from the Material Plane. Namely, it is an alternate version of matter, not a state that can observe and interact with creatures in the Material Plane. Thus it feels less useful to represent animistic nature spirit concepts. These nature beings would actually be Ethereal creatures, specifically creatures of the Border Ether that can observe and interact with the creatures in the Material Plane. Perhaps creatures of the Ethereal Plane might be Material, Elemental, Fey, or Shadow. I need to mull more about what 2024 Fey means.

 

[Parmandur]

That may be, but I am not sure how they would do that. It would be leaving a lot of classic threats out of the game. However, they did make this statement:

"The stat blocks of monsters with the Humanoid creature type have been redesigned to represent any Humanoid species. Now, these stat blocks include distinct mechanics aligned with a certain role or profession. So, whether you're introducing your player characters to a charismatic drow performer or a questing goliath knight, you can find inspiration for your NPCs."

So it seems they are integrating NPCs and Humanoids in some way. I just don't understand how yet.

Thinking about it, I wonder if that is what the "conversion guide" is about: they had a design goal of making it so that there was a one-to-one equivalent for each 2014 Monster stat block by name (am admirable goal).

But that goal is not compatible with that bit you quote here: so for former Humanoid stat blocks, say the Orc, Oregon, or Drow Priestess of Llolth...maybe they have been renamed and repurposed, with the conversion guide explaining the new equivalent.

the only formerly Humanoid Monster blocks we know of specifically are the Kobold/Gnoll/Hobgoblin/Goblin/Bugbear Warriors and the Kuo Toa...and we know those have all changed Creature Types, unlike Orcs or Drow.

 

[dave2008]

Thinking about it, I wonder if that is what the "conversion guide" is about: they had a design goal of making it so that there was a one-to-one equivalent for each 2014 Monster stat block by name (am admirable goal).

But that goal is not compatible with that bit you quote here: so for former Humanoid stat blocks, say the Orc, Oregon, or Drow Priestess of Llolth...maybe they have been renamed and repurposed, with the conversion guide explaining the new equivalent.

the only formerly Humanoid Monster blocks we know of specifically are the Kobold/Gnoll/Hobgoblin/Goblin/Bugbear Warriors and the Kuo Toa...and we know those have all changed Creature Types, unlike Orcs or Drow.

That is basically what I am thinking as well.