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D&D 5E Hurdles from D20 to 5e?

fletch137

Explorer
Some friends and I are finally giving into the curiosity and will be trying out D&D 5e. I've heard good things about the Starter Set, so will grab that and run the gang through Lost Mines of Phandelver.

I'm not new to gaming, having played quite a bit of 3rd Ed back in the day. My question, though, is where will that 3E experience bite me in the butt?

For those of you who've played both versions, what preconceptions did you bring to 5th that turned out to be mistaken? What assumptions about the game should I make an effort to ditch, and what aspects about 5e should I pay special attention to?
 

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Off the top of my head:

There are no more "delay actions."
Inspiration, a minor reward for playing in character.
There is no more BAB. If you're proficient, you can fight.
Skills and proficiencies come from race (sometimes), class, and background.
Simply put, everything is tied to your race, class, and background except proficiency bonus.
Not everything is a dice mechanic. Some abilities/traits grant you a measure of success and/or prestige automatically, provided certain roleplaying conditions are met. This might take some getting used it. For example, a player's character might be a "Folk Hero." As such, that player would automatically receive friendly hospitality from the "common folk" and it extends to their friends. This does mean the PC can be a jerk, like Ash in Army of Darkness, but the people love him anyway. Normally any PC would require obscene amounts of luck and skill as their character personality would be nothing but a nuisance. This extends to other backgrounds as well, granting automatic knowledge, money, passage, shelter, food, water, etc. in a defined area. There's really nothing like this in 3e other than house rules as it removes Diplomancy.
 

Gadget

Adventurer
One of the main things to realize is that 5e is not as fine grained a system as 3e is/was. What I mean by that is there is not a feat/prestige class, rule/sub-system to handle every little thing. The advantage/disadvantage system covers a lot, and the motto is "Rulings, not rules". This is not to say that it is completely open ended, but it is meant to be more streamlined and remove a lot of the "fiddly bits". There is not things like flat footed AC, 5' steps and the like. Feats are fewer but much "bigger" as far as effect and character defining. The concept of Bounded Accuracy means that Bonus to hit and AC does not increase dramatically as levels go up, so base monster remain a threat for much longer as long as the number of opponents increases. Martial characters can move attack move attack in any order, and largely increase their damage output by getting more attacks as they level (there is no 'full attack'). Most things do not stack, so the ways to pump stats, AC & attacks are much more limited.

They have taken steps to eliminate the LFQW by limiting the number of spell slots casters get for higher level spells. Spells no longer scale by caster level, but by the slot you use to cast the spell. Many of the spells that could be layered on to create devastating effects no require the caster to maintain concentration, and you can only maintain concentration on one spell at a time. Magic Items are less of a part of the character power and are not factored in to any type of expected 'power level' or 'expected wealth by level'. On the other hand all casters are like 3e sorcerers, the prepared casters merely get to change their 'spells known' every day. Casters get at will cast-able cantrips, some of which are combat effective and increase in power as the cater rises in level.
 


Shiroiken

Legend
The biggest issue is long-term. Characters are much simpler in 5E, with less "crunch" per level. This, along with fewer feats, limits "builds" that many 3E players are used to.

Another big one is that Magic Items are NOT built into the math of the game, so there is NO EXPECTED magic items or wealth by level. Everything you manage to get just makes you better than others! A simple weapon +1 is a huge benefit, not something that should be expected (or worse, demanded).

It's a simpler rules system, with no real benefit for "system mastery," as there was in 3E. In general, the players just choose an action, the DM decides what type of roll (if any) is required, and the results of that action.

Advantage/Disadvantage can be a system shock, but trust me, this is one of the best new features of 5E.
 

iserith

Magic Wordsmith
Some friends and I are finally giving into the curiosity and will be trying out D&D 5e. I've heard good things about the Starter Set, so will grab that and run the gang through Lost Mines of Phandelver.

I'm not new to gaming, having played quite a bit of 3rd Ed back in the day. My question, though, is where will that 3E experience bite me in the butt?

For those of you who've played both versions, what preconceptions did you bring to 5th that turned out to be mistaken? What assumptions about the game should I make an effort to ditch, and what aspects about 5e should I pay special attention to?

I recommend that when learning any new game that is similar to an old one that was played, it's important to forget what you know about the old one while learning the new one. Keep the tropes - forget the rules.

The biggest things to remember about D&D 5e in my view is the basic conversation of the game, the goals of play, and when the mechanics are used. The basic conversation of the game is that the DM describes the environment, the players describe what they want to do, and the DM narrates the results of the adventurers' actions. The goals of play are to have a good time as a group and create an exciting, memorable story as a result of play. Finally, bear in mind that the mechanics serve the DM, not the other way around and only come into play when the DM determines that the result of the adventurers' actions is uncertain. If the DM thinks that what the player described works or doesn't work, then that's how it goes. It's only when the DM thinks it is uncertain that mechanics get applied.

If you keep those three things in mind when running the game and trying to figure out specific rules, it will help you keep everything straight in your head.

Good luck and have fun!
 

spinozajack

Banned
Banned
Opportunity attacks are a big simplification in 5e too, as well as the other points that people here mention. Basically you only trigger an OA when you leave the reach of an opponent without using the withdraw action. That's it. No OA from casting in melee, or taking something out of your backpack, or using a bow up close, or standing up from prone. Those things usually use disadvantage.

Another thing that came up in our group last session was the rogue getting sneak attacks using his dagger when our cleric was standing alone in front of a hobgoblin. It's much easier to get SA in 5e at range, which makes rogues a bit more versatile and was one of the big complaints about 3.x rogues. The player of the cleric didn't believe that rogues could SA from afar, and the DM wasn't aware either. We're all fairly experienced players but that's why you really should not assume that anything works the way you think it does. There will be surprises, even after you've been playing the game for a while. Fortunately it's not a big deal to make mistakes and use d20-isms until you unlearn what you have learned. :) There are lots of little nuances that come up that eventually you will see are simply better in 5e. A couple are worse, but no system is perfect.

Combat is really dynamic because you can move-attack-move (-attack-move-attack-etc as long as you have extra attacks and/or movement left). And you don't trigger OAs if you run circles around your opponent but stay within their reach. It's really nice and part of what makes the system great. It's a fine bit of engineering, and a job well done.

Once you play 5e you'll realize that what at first appears as though it's quite simpler, in practice combat is a lot more fun, dynamic, balanced (vs casters) and melee types aren't slaves to "full attacking". The game is just better than d20 in pretty much every way. It's also more old school, and the simulationism it does have is elegant and not falling into the side of tedium and annoyance.

I agree with what others have said about adv / disadv. It's a massive time saver to avoid all these little bonuses and penalties. And I'm very happy that annoyances like two weapon fighting penalties are gone. The BAB weapon attack staircase is also gone, meaning all your attacks are at the same bonus. Plus the numbers are much smaller.

It's easily the most mechanically sound D&D yet, try it you will see. It will be hard going back to d20 afterwards. I refuse to play any non-5e game now, even in campaigns that started in 2e / 3e / 4e. It's easy to migrate them over and require a lot less work. Also it's really easy to DM, that's one of the big benefits. The rules are streamlined and logical, for the most part. Yeah, a great game system.

Cool. cool,cool,cool
 
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CapnZapp

Legend
5e is a huge improvement on d20 in nearly every way. And I'm saying this having dozens of 3e books and years of playing and loving it.

But in the end, 3e collapses under its own weight.

5e removes and simplifies a lot of rules, but in almost every case, it results in a faster more fun better game!

Main area lacking: the support for creating or buying magic items is practically non existing. (there are rules, but they are worthless from the d20 perspective)

Otherwise, a huge improvement though!
 

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