Hyboria - More of the same?

[Snoweel]

So I recently purchased the Conan RPG, and was impressed with the changes made to the d20 ruleset. I think they did well taking item-dependence out of the game, and the magic system is simply brilliant.

That said, I prefer more of a streamlined, cinematic combat than the high 'realism', grim 'n gritty style supported by the Conan rules.

Anyway, my gripe is really with Hyboria.

I've never read any of the Conan novels, so didn't know much about Hyboria, but after hearing so much about it, and seeing the dedication of the huge fanbase, I was pretty excited to have a look at it.

I was quite disappointed to say the least.

It's not so much that the Hyborian age is simply absurd as an even fictional postulation of Earth's prehistory* (though it surprises me that a construction worker like myself can have a better grasp of history than an academic like Howard) but rather that Hyboria's history (and thus culture development) is only slightly more internally consistent than a world like Greyhawk, which was built around the early, unconnected modules, and the many and varied locations described therein.

So what I'm asking is, why the hype? Is it just the flavourful characters and locations of Howard's Hyboria (which I admit are very good) or do you, the lovers of the Conan stories, truly believe the setting is any better than Greyhawk, the Realms, et al.?

Note, I'm not rubbishing Hyboria. Neither am I rubbishing Greyhawk or the Realms. All are settings with countless inspirational elements, and I've ripped them all off in my own homebrew.

But I've seen other settings, both published and homebrewed, that are far superior to any of these big-name settings.

So why the hype?

Why do you love Robert Howard's Hyborian Age over all others?

*N.B. Yes, I'm aware that Howard didn't claim Hyboria to be the actual prehistory of Earth.

 

[Ylis]

Actually, I agree with you on this one...the world itself is not really all that intricate. Nothing exciting, anyway. But the game itself is excellent, IMO.

 

[Desdichado]

Howard did that on purpose. His friend, H.P. Lovecraft actually criticised him for it, but he didn't understand either. Making the Hyborian nations be sorta equivalent to modern population groups was a shorthand -- Howard wrote short stories, not novels, and detailing the setting wasn't actually a priority. In fact, he wanted to avoid having to spend valuable time in the short story explaining what a Commorian was, for instance (a nation from his earlier Kull stories) so he decided to use short hand.

You may not know what a Vanir or a Stygian is, or where and what kind of country Hyrkania and Khitai are, but you can guess pretty well, without having to be told. They have resonance without even trying.

For that matter, a setting like FR has the same strength -- because everything is fairly cliche, you don't need to spend a lot of time wondering what such and such country is like. "Oh, those are the FR Mongols," for instance. The difference being, it was a new idea when Howard did it, and he wasn't cheesy about it.

 

[Iron_Chef]

If you read the stories, the setting comes alive and gets in your blood! The real world analogues make it easy to identify with; I'm not concerned with the plausibility of the setting vs. earth's history. I can't think of another d20 setting that grabs me like Conan. Nehwon or Thieves' World, maybe, but they aren't d20 and their worlds aren't as detailed and therefore don't do as much for me outside of their main focus (one main city: Lankhmar or Sanctuary). Dragon Lords of Melnibone did a horrible job of describing Elric's world (not to mention mangling the d20 rules), so that's out the window. Nope, it's Conan for me.

I've waited 20 years to game in that world, I've read dozens of novels, short stories and comics. It's in my blood. It's either in you or it's not, but until you read the Robert E. Howard originals (or some of the better pastiches, though I'm sure I'll take some hits for even bringing them up, LOL), I wouldn't dismiss it. It's kinda the reverse of the Forgotten Realms---where the more novels you read, the better you like it---whereas the more Realms novels I read, the less I like FR! YMMV (and no, I don't hate FR, just the cheesy parts, which is to say, great big chunks of it that I'm forced to rewrite or throw out, but I still game it).

 

[Wormwood]

My suggestion: read Howard's stories.

Then, if you still don't like the Hyborian age (and that's entirely possible---it ain't everyone's cup of tea), you'll at least have the benefit of an informed opinion. Plus, you get to read some of the seminal works of modern fantasy.

That's not intended to be a slam, BTW.

IMO, judging Hyboria by Mongoose's (admittedly excellent) game is akin to judging Tolkien's writing by only watching the Rings films.

 

[Vigilance]

Anyway, my gripe is really with Hyboria.

I've never read any of the Conan novels, so didn't know much about Hyboria, but after hearing so much about it, and seeing the dedication of the huge fanbase, I was pretty excited to have a look at it.

Two comments:

First, Greyhawk was enormously influenced by the works of Robert E. Howard as was D&D itself. So if anything qualifies for "more of the same" consideration (and I happen to be fond of both worlds) it would be Greyhawk, not Hyboria.

Secondly, if you had read a Conan story or two, rather than the dry descriptions of places for an RPG book, you wouldn't be asking the question. Hyboria is a world of beauty and horror. I mean horror. No other writer was as good at creeping me out besides HP Lovecraft than Robert E Howard.

Chuck

 

[DaveStebbins]

Can't be more of the same when you were first...

It's only "more of the same" if you were exposed to the others first. Remember that Hyboria predates all of the others you mention by decades. Joshua was right that it was largely new ideas when Howard wrote it.

Also, as others have pointed out, the nations were largely stereotypical because Howard was concerned with bringing to life the smaller, more personal bits. It was no doubt difficult for Mongoose to replicate Howard's feel on a national level when he spent little time there.

Finally, reading one or two of the stories will be worthwhile. Even if you don't enjoy them as much as many of the fanatics do, it will give you a better feel for the very roots of fantasy, upon which all the rest has been built. That is a feeling I get whenever I read Howard, Lovecraft, Dunsany, CASmith, Haggard, etc.

-Dave

 

[StalkingBlue]

Hyboria isn't meant to be realistic or consistent. That's not what it is concerned with. The setting "geographically" and "historically" is meant as a collection of highly coloured backdrops to a bunch of larger-than-life characters - Howard's heroes if youre reading the stories (which are unashamedly pulp, no attempt at realism here), or the PCs if you're playing the game.

Mongoose did a brilliant job I think, in focussing the game around the characters, rather than the world. There's a big difference for you to FR or many other worlds (published or homebrew) that take themselves more seriously than the PCs adventuring in them.

Of course I'm currently theorising. I'll get a chance to play in S'mon's Conan game this week though, looking forward to that ...

 

[Snoweel]

Thanks for your answers guys. I realise now that one's taste for a setting depends on what angle one comes at it from (story v. character v. backdrop v. whatever). Each to his or her own.

And I was well aware that Howard was first, though to me that means very little - just because the Beatles were first doesn't stop me from seeing them as 'just another boy-band' for example...

 

[Dark Jezter]

As much as I love Robert E. Howard's Conan stories, I can admit that the Hyborean age isn't a real deep or original setting. However, many gamers were heralding it as the second coming of Campaign Settings because they have a Pavlov's Dog-like drool reflex whenever they see something labeled as "low magic" and "grim & gritty."

That said, I still plan on buying the Conan D20 setting. Who know, maybe I'll even find people to game with.