Hybrid Classes

[Lord Zardoz]

This actually makes me think about breaking class features down into feats, in order to allow hybrid characters to get the class features in full (or at least, access to class features they don't have).

For instance, Feat: Turn Undead [Pre-Req: Cleric Hybrid] (works as normal).

Or Feat: Healing Word [Pre-Req: Cleric Hybrid] (you can use it twice per encounter).

Maybe that's too broken, though.

It might not be too powerful of those feats are at the Paragon Tier instead of the Heroic tier. However, it might end up having strange 'stacking' effects with respect to multi-class feats, (ie, a hybrid-classed Warlord taking the multi-class feat to gain a 2nd Inspiring Word).

I am not surprised that this kind of system is what they ended up going with. There were obviously many people who wanted something like this. I suppose we will see how this evolves between now and the PHB 3 release.

END COMMUNICATION

 

[Mournblade94]

I don't have access to D&D insider. Still I think there should be some way that non subscribers should be able to read 1 or 2 particular articles that might interest them.

After reading everything here, I do not see how it is a more thourough merging of classes than multiclassing.

IS it a more thourough merging? How so?

 

[Cadfan]

I don't have access to D&D insider. Still I think there should be some way that non subscribers should be able to read 1 or 2 particular articles that might interest them.

After reading everything here, I do not see how it is a more thourough merging of classes than multiclassing.

IS it a more thourough merging? How so?

You get at least one class feature from each class, in part- for example, instead of Healing Word twice per encounter, you get it once per encounter. You get access to powers from both classes, including at will powers. You are permitted to take a feat which grants you an additional class power of your choice, in full. You get both class's weapons and implements, but only the lesser armor. Your initial starting stats are a merge of both classes.

The goal was to create a class who could function as a full X in one round, and a full Y in another. This means that a lot of class abilities are altered to not stack. You won't be marking AND sneak attacking at the same time with your fighter/rogue hybrid, though you certainly could mark someone one round and sneak attack them the next.

I find this to be a sufficient hybrid, but there will be a lot of people who want fighters who mark with scorching burst, or rogues who sneak attack with twin strike and hunter's quarry.

 

[Nymrohd]

I'd say it is quite more thorough since there a much smaller feat tax (just one feat) and a very flexible setup for choosing powers (you need to have at least one at-will, encounter, utility and daily from each class, but potentially the rest can be from the other class).It is different from multiclassing were you are a member of one class who picks up a few tricks since the hybrid really is a member of two classes, and just doesn't have access to all their tricks.
I do think they can give more class features for some classes for free though. Certainly can be improved, but as I said earlier, feels easier to improve it now that the early release is the bare-bones version.

 

[Mengu]

Are you referring to a hybrid fighter-hybrid ranger multiclass avenger taking a hybrid feat to get tempest technique?

Yup, that's exactly what I'm referring to. Tempest teqnique is a feature that essentially rolls extra damage, extra defense, and extra attack bonus all into one feature. So at around level 5 you could have something like:

Half-orc Hybrid Fighter/Ranger 5
Str 19 Con 13 Dex 18 Int 8 Wis 13 Cha 10

Feats:
Hybrid Talent: Tempest Technique
Weapon Proficiency: Doublesword
Divine Bloodline

At-Will:
Twin Strike (R)
Footwork Lure (F)

Encounter:
Off-Hand Strike (R)
Rain of Blows (F)

Daily:
Jaws of the Wolf (R)
Rain of Steel (F)

Against your quarry, the round you are positioned to use Oath of Enmity, you go to town with Rain of Blows, Off-Hand Strike, and Furious Assault. You can do this combo once every encounter, there will be other combos possible as you level up, some requiring an action point.

At some point you'll also grab weapon focus, lethal hunter, expertise, etc. Stormwarden or Kensei are great for Paragon path, and eventhough wisdom won't be very high, pit fighter is still a great choice too.

Actually, assuming that you can only take the Hybrid feat once this wouldn't be true. Eldritch Blast is a different class feature then Eldritch Pact. This means a human Warlock Hybrid will only have 4 at-wills rather then their usual 3.

Ahh, that sounds better, I knew I was missing something.

 

[Asmor]

Interesting approach... I think the forced 2-powers-per-class will work out as intended most of the time. The restriction to striker class features to powers of that class is an easy way to prevent certain crazy combinations.

Until Supplement X*, which includes the new cross-class powers and inadvertently allows hybrid ranger/rogues multied into warlock to deal sneak attack, hunter's quarry and warlock's curse damage all on the same roll.

*Supplement X has a 30% chance of being PHB 4, 50% chance of being a future dragon article, and 20% chance of being a third party supplement.

 

[Nymrohd]

Why make cross class powers? If you make powers that are not class specific, they should simply not be class powers for anyone.

 

[Jack99]

Yup, that's exactly what I'm referring to. Tempest teqnique is a feature that essentially rolls extra damage, extra defense, and extra attack bonus all into one feature. So at around level 5 you could have something like: [snip]

Yes, indeed it's very good. That's not a multi-class issue however, merely an issue with tempest (which is OP), rain of blows (which is totally broken) and Oath (which should never have been allowed as a multi-class ability).

Together they are scary though

 

[Sadrik]

So your Wizard/Fighter still has to use weapons for his fighter powers, still has to use implements for his wizard powers, he only is trained in Cloth (Because Wizards are only trained in cloth), and he still would incur an OA if he casts fireball next to an enemy.

Ah, yes but now I can have him use a staff and do defendery stuff and still be able to do his "learned book guy" shtick. Theoretically I could define the fighter powers (within reason) as wizardy. This is what was missing imho from the game, how do you attach a class shtick to a character when you wanted to play a slightly modified role. From what I have read in this thread the concept seems to be cleared up (however the rules for it are not it seems).

Well, not really. Your sorcerer or fighter powers would still be sorcerer or fighter powers. Your Fireball spell would still be a Fireball, and your Reaping Strike would still be a Reaping Strike.

This is all fine, the real interest here is the class features that are gained.

As to stacking striker damage this is an easy fix that I have not heard yet. But it also addresses the barbarians built in damage bonus.

You may not apply more than one source of bonus damage from a class feature. Powers that provide bonus damage may not be used with bonus damage class features.

In this way, who cares if they are quarried, cursed, and are in combat advantage with sneak attack, they only can apply one in any given round.




The "bonus skills" wizard-arcana, cleric-religion, rogue-stealth and thievery, and ranger-wilderness or dungeoneering what would it hurt to give these out as bonus skills to the hybrid classes?

 

[Mengu]

Yes, indeed it's very good. That's not a multi-class issue however, merely an issue with tempest (which is OP), rain of blows (which is totally broken) and Oath (which should never have been allowed as a multi-class ability).

Agree on all accounts, though you forgot double sword being light blade and heavy blade and off-hand and defensive and 1d8/1d8 and proficiency 3.