Hydra Combat Reflexes question

[0-hr]

If a character makes three sunder attempts against a hydra in one round, can the hyrdra make three AoO's against him?


Honestly though, I can't imagine anyone actually killing a hydra by taking off the heads. I've run a couple of fights recently and focusing on the body has been the better strategy by far. Maybe if they didn't get that +8 Sunder bonus for being huge...

 

[Hypersmurf]

So, we'll assume for purposes of the question that we're using FAQ Sunder, not Core Rules Sunder, allowing it to be used in a Full Attack?

I'll answer an analogous question first.

If the elf takes three shots with his longbow at the Large Air Elemental (he can't 5' step out of the 10' reach, so he figures 'May as well just shoot'), the Elemental's Combat Reflexes means he gets to make 3 AoOs. There are three separate opportunities, and since none of them are provoked by leaving a threatened square, the limiting rule does not apply.

So that's the simple answer.

Now we come to the complicated answer, which is "What does a hydra's Combat Reflexes feat do?"

Feats: A hydra’s Combat Reflexes feat allows it to use all its heads for attacks of opportunity.

A hydra has a Dex of 12.

Does this mean that this text in in addition to, or instead of the normal feat description?

Does it mean that in any given round, an eight-headed hydra can make one AoO, but its Combat Reflexes feat allows it to make eight simultaneous attacks when that one AoO occurs?

Does it mean that in any given round, an eight-headed hydra can make two AoOs (one normal, plus one for Combat Reflexes and 12 Dex), but its Combat Reflexes feat allows it to make eight simultaneous attacks when each of those two AoOs occur?

Or does it mean that in any given round, an eight-headed hydra can make eight AoOs (with its special Combat Reflexes feat overriding the normal 1 + Dex bonus allotment), using a single distinct head each time an AoO is provoked?

-Hyp.

 

[Trainz]

Or does it mean that in any given round, an eight-headed hydra can make eight AoOs (with its special Combat Reflexes feat overriding the normal 1 + Dex bonus allotment), using a single distinct head each time an AoO is provoked?

-Hyp.

I would go with that one. The hydra has eight distinct heads and (arguably) eight brains.

It's a bad idea to shoot arrows when in an Hydra's threatened area...

 

[Hypersmurf]

I would go with that one. The hydra has eight distinct heads and (arguably) eight brains.

I'm... puzzled.

I would have thought that the eight-brain argument would suggest either of the other two possibilities, before the one you chose

If they act as separate creatures, they should all take an AoO when one is provoked, not wait their turn through the course of a round...

(Which is great fun as a DM. Someone says "I charge the hydra with my greatsword!", and you grin, and pick up a whole fistful of d20s, and start shaking...)

Edit: Oh. I think I see. My punctuation was ambiguous.

Option three should read something like: In any given round, the hydra can make eight AoOs. Each time an AoO is provoked, it can make a single AoO with one head, up to a total of eight AoOs for eight separate provocations.

-Hyp.

 

[Trainz]

Yeah. I meant to say that if a PC charges within melee range to an hydra, he receives 8 attacks of opportunity, allowing the DM to, indeed, roll them bones.

The Hydra's 12 dex and combat reflexes would allow it to do so twice in the same round, but on two different PC's.

Gwing the rogue, not knowlegable about hydras, want's to close in for his assumed flat-footed 1st round sneak attack: *whack* *whack* *whack* *whack* *whack* *whack* *whack* *whack*... Gwing is on the floor, turning a nice shade of grey.

Then Drook the barbarian charges the hydra with his greatsword. Before he even swing at it, *whack* *whack* *whack* *whack* *whack* *whack* *whack* *whack*... Drook stumbles in his own blood and manages an attack: rolls a *1*, and confirms the fumble. However, the beast cannot AoO again on him.

Then Sir Robin the Brave shakily closes the hydra, his tower shield left high, quivering in fear and bracing himself for the AoO's: none comes. He rolls to hit on the hydra: *1*, confirms fumble, but still no AoO's from the hydra.

DM points at players and laughs.

 

[Hypersmurf]

The Hydra's 12 dex and combat reflexes would allow it to do so twice in the same round, but on two different PC's.

Right - that was this option: "Does it mean that in any given round, an eight-headed hydra can make two AoOs (one normal, plus one for Combat Reflexes and 12 Dex), but its Combat Reflexes feat allows it to make eight simultaneous attacks when each of those two AoOs occur?"



Of course, both volleys could be on the same PC if he provokes two separate AoOs in 3.5 (bearing in mind that leaving more than one threatened square is only one opportunity).

A Move and a Sunder on a head, for example, could result in getting chomped 16 times; or if using FAQ Sunder, two Sunder attempts could also incur 16 bites. (Or 15, if the first attempt succeeded )

-Hyp.

 

[Al'Kelhar]

My own view is that because each attack action of an hydra consists of a single attack by each head (e.g. a 12-headed hydra gets 12 attacks per attack action), a hydra's Dex of 12 and Combat Reflexes means it gets two sets of attack actions in response to AoOs, with each attack action consisting of a single attack by each head the hydra possesses.

Hydras can be really fun when you start templating them and changing their feats for feats which allow attacks on the run (Spring Attack, Flyby Attack). Try adding the half-dragon template to a hydra of your choice - or even better, add the multi-headed template to the dragon of your choice. I've also got a two-headed pyro-wyvern with two tails waiting for the PCs...

Cheers, Al'Kelhar

 

[glass]

I always assumed it was the third option, as the other two don't seem to gell with 'the hydra's combat reflexes feat allows...'.

Of course, if it is the 3rd option, it begs the question how many attacks of opportunity does a (for example) 8 headed hydra who somehow gets a dex of 28?


glass.

 

[mikebr99]

I always assumed it was the third option, as the other two donn't seem to gell with 'the hydra's combat reflexes feat allows...'.

Of course, if it is the 3rd option, it begs the question how many attacks of opportunity does a (for example) 8 headed hydra who somehow gets a dex of 28?


glass.

Well, a Hydra with DEX of 28 and combat reflexes would have 10 AoOs in a round... and each individual AoO could be comprised of up to 8 attacks (one from each head remaining).

Mike

 

[dcollins]

Or does it mean that in any given round, an eight-headed hydra can make eight AoOs (with its special Combat Reflexes feat overriding the normal 1 + Dex bonus allotment), using a single distinct head each time an AoO is provoked?

I vote this one (#3). It's the only one that's not outright silly for gameplay purposes.