Hydras, 3d6 breath per head & other ?s

[green slime]

Well... I guess you could argue that way... But a hydra is one defender... so one target for the spring attack feat. It just has a lot of heads... it isn't a lot of monsters.


Mike

But the hydra is already strange in that each head gets its own "Combat Reflexes" feat... Supposedly because there is a walnut-sized brain lurking in the skull of each head? Thus, each head gets to respond to a provoked AoO, and the spring-attacker can avoid the AoO from one head while closing in, but not all of them?

Just how I'd interpret it...

 

[mikebr99]

Then by that argument you are implying that any two-weapon fighting wielder with combat reflexes can make two attacks per opportunity and gets 'dexterity' amount of opportunities
Pinotage

If the 2-weapon fighter had brains in each hand... and the ability for each hand to act independently... then yes.


Mike

 

[Pinotage]

If the 2-weapon fighter had brains in each hand... and the ability for each hand to act independently... then yes.


Mike

By the rules, an AoO is still only a single melee attack. The description of the hydra's Combat Reflexes feat states that it can use all its heads for attacks of opportunity, not that it can use all its heads for an attack of opportunity. I think there's a big difference there in the interpretation.

I don't believe the rules allow for an Ettin to make multiple attacks per opportunity despite having two heads even with Combat Reflexes, nor for creatures like a Chimera.

Pinotage

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

If the 2-weapon fighter had brains in each hand... and the ability for each hand to act independently... then yes.

You mean like an ettin?

 

[mikebr99]

You mean like an ettin?

no... like an Hydra.

The Ettin also doesn't have combat reflexes, so would only get one AoO per round... dispite each brain working independently enough to not take the -5 for off hand attacks.

Mike

 

[Hypersmurf]

By the rules, an AoO is still only a single melee attack. The description of the hydra's Combat Reflexes feat states that it can use all its heads for attacks of opportunity, not that it can use all its heads for an attack of opportunity. I think there's a big difference there in the interpretation.

Except that the normal benefit of the Combat Reflexes feat allows the Hydra (with Dex 12) to make two AoOs a round... which explains the plural in the ability description, allowing it to use all its heads for attacks of opportunity.

It gets to attacks of opportunity a round, and for those attacks of opportunity, it can use all its heads.

I don't believe the rules allow for an Ettin to make multiple attacks per opportunity despite having two heads even with Combat Reflexes, nor for creatures like a Chimera.

No, indeed. Because chimerae don't have a racial ability stating "The chimera's Combat Reflexes feat allows it to use all its heads for attacks of opportunity".

-Hyp.

 

[coyote6]

I still think that 6+ attacks per opportunity is a little much. <shrug>

If only WotC would clarify, preferably via a simple, clean example ("Tordek moves up to the seven-headed hydra, and -- lacking Spring Attack or Tumble skill -- provokes an Attack of Opportunity. The hydra attacks with 7/1/pi/i heads.")

 

[Scion]

or a reach weapon, or cover, or.. any number of things really

I have always thought of its massive aoo's as being one of its special features really, it is what makes it the CR that it is.

After all, just how often does one get to use even as many as a handful of aoo's.. I have never seen a single character get more than 3 in a round, and that was vs pretty much unintelligent opponents (undead swarm). What good would 12 do?

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

or a reach weapon, or cover, or.. any number of things really

I have always thought of its massive aoo's as being one of its special features really, it is what makes it the CR that it is.

No. The massive AoOs interpretation makes it perform at a dramatically higher level than its CR. That interpretation makes it near certain that any party under the hydra's CR will be TPKed and that any party that is at the hydra's CR will use up far more than 20% of their resources. (Incidentally, 1/4 PCs dead is well over 25% of the party's resources assuming).

After all, just how often does one get to use even as many as a handful of aoo's.. I have never seen a single character get more than 3 in a round, and that was vs pretty much unintelligent opponents (undead swarm). What good would 12 do?

Well, hydras also have this really dramatic fast healing that makes it seem attractive to cut off its heads. But if you try sundering its heads without the sunder feat, you're going to provoke an AoO each time. A high level fighter attempting to sunder the hydra's heads could easily provoke 3 AoOs per round. If he used TWF, he could provoke 4-7 AoOs per round by himself. And then, his allies could provoke their own AoOs as they moved in to assist.

 

[Scion]

No. The massive AoOs interpretation makes it perform at a dramatically higher level than its CR.

Not from my experience.

Well, hydras also have this really dramatic fast healing that makes it seem attractive to cut off its heads. But if you try sundering its heads without the sunder feat, you're going to provoke an AoO each time. A high level fighter attempting to sunder the hydra's heads could easily provoke 3 AoOs per round. If he used TWF, he could provoke 4-7 AoOs per round by himself. And then, his allies could provoke their own AoOs as they moved in to assist.

Cutting off heads is almost never an attractive option, but if someone is going to do it then they will most likely have improved sunder. So, no aoo's provoked at all. Even then though it is usually a better idea to simply attack the body anyway.

So again, it is fairly easy to avoid the aoo's from reach with a bit of planning, and attacking the heads is mostly a bad idea. The pile of aoo's seems to be one of the two things that actually makes its cr, the other is the fast healing (which might be a bit much). But then, I have seen one of the cr 5 guys go down in two rounds to a 5th level party of four players with no loss of characters, and barely any damage (one guy provoked one of the aoo's, but with a good ac he barely got touched).