Hyp is going to love this: All About AoOs 2

[MerricB]

Yep, I know that in the XPH and other recent stuff they've broken free actions into swift (free action on your turn) and immediate (free action at any time), but that hasn't been back-propagated to the standard 3.5 rules AFAIK. Have you seen anything that maps all the existing stuff onto swift/immediate?

No, but I've seen Swift actions in a third book. (They first were in the MHb, then moved to XPH, and now in MM3, if I remember correctly).

Incidentally, with the Sudden metamagic feats being reprinted in Complete Arcane, I'd expect the Swift action to also appear there.

Cheers!

 

[Sammael]

Races of Stone also had swift and immediate actions, and a sidebar about them. They really should be added to the SRD, regardless of which book they appear in.

 

[Staffan]

Races of Stone also had swift and immediate actions, and a sidebar about them. They really should be added to the SRD, regardless of which book they appear in.

They are already in the SRD by way of the XPH. It's not used in the majority of it, though.

 

[The Spectrum Rider]

So there's this:

When you make an attack of opportunity, you use your full attack bonus (no matter how many other attacks of opportunity you've made during the round). Certain actions you've taken during your previous turn might impose a penalty on your attacks of opportunity, such as using the flurry of blows class feature. If the same foe later provokes another attack of opportunity from you, you can attack that foe again (provided that you're allowed more than one attack of opportunity that round), and you use your full attack bonus for that attack.​

Does this make sense? Shouldn't the penalty (from, say, Flurry of Blows) apply until the beginning of your next turn, and thus apply to all your AoOs in a round? Or have I misunderstood something?

The Spectrum Rider

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

It does. The text you mentioned is merely clarifying that, if you have a normal attack progression of +6 / +1, and the ability to make multiple AoOs, the first is at +6, and the second is at +6 - not +1, like normal iterative attacks.

 

[Nail]

"Clarifying" being the operative word.

Still: Patryn has it right, IMO.

 

[Jhulae]

Although my general opinion about this Sage article is definitely very positive, I still find the chain-of-AoO concept disturbing

So you're making a manoeuvre to disarm your opponent, and by doing so you open yourself to the opponent's which therefore makes an AoO (let's say sunder) on you, but still you can react enough to the opponent's AoO by quickly interrupting your own disarm attempt to get an AoO (you choose trip), but the opponent interrupts his own sunder attempt to react to your tripping attempt by getting an AoO and tries to grapple, so before you complete your tripping attempt in the middle of the foe's sundering in the middle of your own disarming, you choose a second disarm which he's then going to counter-disarm... good grief

What happens to all the previous actions if one of the attempts is successful? For example if the final disarm attempt from the foe succeeds, are you disarmed NOW? So you cannot complete the previous disarm yourself? Does he get the previous AoOs? Do you get your previous AoOs?

Thank got it's a very rare situation, because this is everything except an elegant rule.

Except this would never happen because you only make AoOs when it's not your turn. This 'chain' would never start. You start to disarm, provoking an AoO from your opponent, he decides to try and sunder you. That's where it ends. You can not 'interrupt' your own attack to make an AoO. It doesnt' work that way.

If he sunders your weapon, you can't disarm (because now you have no weapon). If he doesn't, you can attempt to disarm (because you still have your weapon).

 

[Hypersmurf]

Except this would never happen because you only make AoOs when it's not your turn.

There's no evidence to support that in the rules for AoOs on PHB p137-138.

You can make an AoO if a/ you threaten, and b/ they provoke. No 'and it isn't your turn' condition.

-Hyp.

 

[Jeff Wilder]

So you're making a manoeuvre to disarm your opponent, and by doing so you open yourself to the opponent's which therefore makes an AoO (let's say sunder) on you, but still you can react enough to the opponent's AoO by quickly interrupting your own disarm attempt to get an AoO (you choose trip), but the opponent interrupts his own sunder attempt to react to your tripping attempt by getting an AoO and tries to grapple, so before you complete your tripping attempt in the middle of the foe's sundering in the middle of your own disarming, you choose a second disarm which he's then going to counter-disarm... good grief

Like many areas of the D&D rules, you have to be willing to relax, let your mind open, think abstractly, and judge the in-game scene by the results, not by the game mechanics leading to those results. This is, IMO, one of D&D strengths, not weaknesses.

In the situation you describe, what actually happens in the game is that the two wary opponents enter a very brief binding of bodies and blades that ends when one them successfully ... whatevers ... trips, sunders, disarms. There's no interruptions of oneself and the like in the game reality, only in the rules.

 

[Jhulae]

It doesn't make sense to be able to take an AoO on your turn. I'll have to see about sending that in to the sage.

Regardless, allowing for the fact that you can take AoOs while you're acting, the 'chain' *still* stops after one AoO each, unless both combatants have Combat Reflexes and incredible dexterities, since you can only take one AoO without that particular feat.

So, that 'chain' of ludicrous amounts of AoOs given in the example still is extremely unlikely to ever happen in actual play by the rules currently.