D&D 5E hypothetical - a giant capturing downed pc's while rest of party fights on? rule for this

[iserith]

If that was the case the unconscious condition would not say attack rolls against the creature have advantage, but instead that it hit autimatically like for Strenght and Dexterity saving throws.

Personally, I think that aspect of the unconscious condition is stupid. But in any case, the giant isn't making an attack roll against the unconscious character. It is just picking up said character. Grapple rules wouldn't apply in my view because the target is offering no resistance. Even if the rest of the grappling rules were applied, I certainly don't think there is any contest.

 

[Plaguescarred]

Personally, I think that aspect of the unconscious condition is stupid. But in any case, the giant isn't making an attack roll against the unconscious character. It is just picking up said character. Grapple rules wouldn't apply in my view because the target is offering no resistance. Even if the rest of the grappling rules were applied, I certainly don't think there is any contest.

You might find it stupid, but the rules don't assume attacking an unconscious creature is an automatic outcome.

I would only treat a creature as an object once dead and allow them to be picked-up as such.

 

[iserith]

You might find it stupid, but the rules don't assume attacking an unconscious creature is an automatic outcome.

I would only treat a creature as an object once dead and allow them to be picked-up as such. IIRC Chris Perkins offered a similar answer not long ago on his twitter too.

Of course, we don't serve the rules - they serve us. And that tells me we must make a ruling on the fictional situation that is unfolding before applying the rules (if at all). I don't think in most cases that requiring an attack roll against an unconscious creature makes sense. In some cases, it might make sense. Therefore, I believe putting the rule ahead of the ruling is not a good practice.

 

[seebs]

can anyone point out if/where this a rule where if a pc is downed during combat that they could be captured and dragged away by an enemy while other characters are still fighting

I ask as I my hands on the new hill giant miniature and he has this backpack that is large enough to hold party member in it. made me think of a rescue operation adventure

I don't comprehend why this would need to be a "rule". Can the giant pick up a thing of that size? Sure. Can the giant wander off? Well, it can try. The other characters could try to stop it.

 

[MonkeezOnFire]

I don't think it's unreasonable to treat an unconscious creature the same as you treat an inanimate object. You have to roll to hit objects in order to overcome their sturdiness in order to deal damage. However, you don't have to roll to pick up an object.

One must keep in mind that the attack roll is an abstraction of a lot of different things. Ability to dodge, armor, natural hardiness of creatures, cover, vision, etc. are all modeled by a single roll in order to make combat flow at a reasonable pace and to keep it simple. Some weirdness does come up because of this abstraction such as creatures retaining their dex bonus to AC when they are unconscious, but these are the things you have to just accept for simplicity's sake.

 

[Plaguescarred]

Of course, we don't serve the rules - they serve us. And that tells me we must make a ruling on the fictional situation that is unfolding before applying the rules (if at all). I don't think in most cases that requiring an attack roll against an unconscious creature makes sense. In some cases, it might make sense. Therefore, I believe putting the rule ahead of the ruling is not a good practice.

You don't put anything ahead or behind rulings, the rules are just there to provide guidance and in this case it tells you that attacking an unconscious creature is not an uncertain outcome but that there is advantage on the roll. You're free to ginore it of course and rule as you wish.

I think its a ruling that disfavor PCs more than monsters though if most monsters die at 0 hit points, rather than falling unconscious.

 

[Lidgar]

Why would you need to roll to successfully attack an unconscious creature but not to grapple it?

Because IMO, attacking to cause damage requires a certain level of proficiency (even against an unconscious target), while grabbing an inert creature (i.e., grappling) does not. Sure, grappling uses your attack action (or one of your attacks), but it is not resolved like an attack. An attack is meant to cause damage, and that requires a degree of combat proficiency, even against an unconscious target.

A DM could always say an unconscious creature automatically loose a contest since it cannot oppose the effort, but even the Contest rule don't have automatic failure for unconscious creature.

I'm not saying unconscious creature shouldn't automatically fail the check, i'm saying the rules don't automatically grant it as written, like for a saving throws.

I know the rules don't state that an unconscious creature automatically fails STR/DEX checks (like they do for saves), but, using common sense, what circumstance would allow an unconscious creature to make an opposed STR/DEX check?

Perhaps if the PC was covered in grease, you could make it a static DC check to see if the giant could get a grip.

 

[Plaguescarred]

A giant attempting to grab an unconscious creature could fail and loose it as it convulsed or just because it slip off his hand and dropped back on the ground. It could attempt to grab it and put the hand on a sharp object and back off etc.. There could be multitude of reasons why in the narrative grappling an unconscious creature has failed.

 

[Lidgar]

A giant attempting to grab an unconscious creature could fail and loose it as it convulsed or just because it slip off his hand and dropped back on the ground. It could attempt to grab it and put the hand on a sharp object and back off etc.. There could be multitude of reasons why in the narrative grappling an unconscious creature has failed.

Sure, there are a multitude of narratives you could come up why the giant failed to grapple an unconscious PC. But those are all static DC cases, not a contest. A contest assumes active participation by the contestants. An opposed roll just does not make sense IMO.

 

[wicked cool]

wow-seems like a split response. I'm glad I brought it up