Hypothetical questions for anyone who likes Batman

[Silver Moon]

Yes, I am a comic book reader and fan - have been for 30 years now. I don't get Batman at present but do pick up both Robin and Nightwing (my son's two favorite characters) so am familiar with the current storylines in Detective/Batman.

All three hypotheticals have all been done before. Joker death most obviously in Darkknight, but also in may 'Elseworlds'. The Batman dies, Dick becomes Batman was done with Earth 1 back in the old JLA/JSA crossover stories. The Batman retires, new Bats takes over in addition to Batman Beyond and a recent two-part alternate future Teen Titans story was also done in the whole 1994 'Knightfall' storyline where Bruce was injured and passed it on to Azrael (Batman 500) and a year later Dick Grayson took on the role (Batman 512) with Bruce taking it back shortly thereafter.


And since we're talking hypotheticals, I'll toss one out that was discussed at length at my son's Cub cout Camp this summer. If a bat, which only weighs 8 ounces, can eat ten times its weight in mosquetos in a night then how many mosquetos would a 200-pound Batman be able to eat in a night?

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

The Batman dies, Dick becomes Batman was done with Earth 1 back in the old JLA/JSA crossover stories.

Counter-intuitively, the JSA Earth was actually Earth 2.

 

[Kesh]

I stopped collecting comics years back, when my income became less regular. At the time, though, one of my must-have titles was Batman: Legends of the Dark Knight.

I'd say the only scenario that's really likely is that DC could do something similar to the "Marvel Ultimates" line, where the company hits the big red reset switch on a title. That would allow Batman to start anew, and updated for modern times.

As it stands, I can't see them effectively replacing Bruce Wayne. Too many people identify him with Batman, and won't accept any change. Remember, they tried it once. And, while part of the outcry was over who they chose to replace him, mostly it was just the idea that Bruce wouldn't be wearing the costume anymore.

That said, I loved how they handled the idea in the Batman Beyond cartoon. That was a great way to pass the mantle on, and could potentially be worked into the real comic timeline. Still, I doubt DC would ever really go through with it.

 

[Klaus]

Of course, DC did already use the reset button waaay before the Marvel Ultimate line, not once, but twice. First time was in the 50s with The Flash, which sparked the Silver Age. The second time was, of course, with the Man of Steel miniseries.

 

[WayneLigon]

The Dark Knight and Dark Knight Returns are not in continuity, though, so whatever happens there is moot. Same with anything to do with Earth-2, since none of that was the Batman.

Marvel Ultimate is not a reset; it's a seperate universe, the same way New Universe was. The old continuity is in place in all the normal titles.

 

[stevelabny]

Ok, one more question... To all those of you who said you don't read comics but that DC can't do this.... If DC did change Batman's status quo permenantly... would it prevent you from watching JLU or going to see the next Batman or Superman or Wonder Woman movie (which don't match the comics anyway)

I'm going to assume from most of your responses, that the answer is NO. you will still watch the cartoon, or the movies, or play the video games, or buy the toys.

So if you guys mostly agree that it wouldn't affect your enjoyment of the cartoon or movie or video game or toys... WHY can't DC do it?

I ask because as some of you might know, there is another "Crisis" coming to the DCU.
After the Crisis, the DCU will jump "1 year later..."
It seems that something big has been building up in the DCU, and I would not be surprised if this all ends with a new Batman. I actually HOPE Bruce dies and they stick with it, and then decide to age their characters normally, and move away from this "icon" nonsense.

I've been talking about this a lot at my comics hangout, and while some agree with me, some keep insisting that it couldn't be done because it is "too risky" or "bad business" .
Almost every comic right now sells UNDER 100,000 copies. That is a pathetic number, and with or without a drastic change in the way things are done, the industry won't be able to support itself in a few more years. Even if evolution is tried and fails, it can't do anything worse to comic sales than the current death by stagnation.

The "general public" will think that Batman is Bruce Wayne due to TV and movies, so changing the secret identity in comics will not impact any other profits. Even if there is a public outcry (or much more likely, a public eye-rolling) sales will not be affected because none of those people buy comics in the first place.

If the batman begins movie-goer can say "Batman begins is an origin story? Didnt he have his origin story years ago? Must not match up with the current comics. Do they still make comics? Whatever, I don't care, pass the popcorn."

Then they can also say "A batman movie with Bruce Wayne? I think I heard he was dead. Must not match up with the current comics. Do they still make comics? Whatever, I don't care, pass the popcorn."

Yes most of the comic audience now is old and likes these characters, and any time you remove or replace one, there will be angry fans, and possibly lost sales. Any time you tell this big of a story though, you will gain sales. And if it doesn't just feel like a cheap gimmick, but reads like a nautral story, it might actually keep some of the people who sampled it.

I think a HUGE event such as replacing Batman will draw free publicity to announce that the status quo is changing all around with the 1 year later event. It will be the best jump on point for one of the two comic universes in decades.

I continue to believe that one of the reasons that comics have not connected with kids is because the kids can tell that these are the same characters their parents grew up with, getting tiny makeovers that are supposed to make them feel modern, but instead make them feel forced.
One reason why new characters are never given a fighting chance to become popular, is because they are always overshadowed by the pre-existing legends.

These icons, who have already established themselves in other media, need to pass the torch on in the comic book world. There is no connection between the two, so there is no reason to pretend there is a connection.

 

[Richards]

You know, it suddenly strikes me that the timing of having DC just now come out with an "All-Stars" line going back to the early days of their "big name" superheroes fits in nicely with this theory. Why not kill off Bruce Wayne in the "DC Universe" if you've still got Bruce Wayne as "All-Star Universe" Batman? That way, both bases are covered.

Now I'm concerned that they might actually kill off Batman in the regular DC Universe. If they do, I hope it lasts only as long as Superman's death. I don't want to see anyone else wearing the Batman costume but Bruce.

Johnathan

 

[argo]

One of the few failures of Batman Beyond was that Terry McGinis was not a compelling replacement for Bruce Wayne.

You, good sir are a man of poor taste and, I suspect, poor personal hygene as well.

Kidding aside, one of the best things about Batman Beyond was the slow, but measureble, growth of Terry into a new Batman who resembled the old but was different and unique in his own right. Perhaps Terry did not make a compelling replacement at first but you could see the potential for him to become one and the fact that he made constant progress towards that end was the brilliance of that show IMNSHO.


Oh, and on the subject of this thread, DC has repeatedly implemented "permanent" changes and then knuckled under later. So I'll believe it when I see it.

 

[Mouseferatu]

Ok, one more question... To all those of you who said you don't read comics but that DC can't do this.... If DC did change Batman's status quo permenantly... would it prevent you from watching JLU or going to see the next Batman or Superman or Wonder Woman movie (which don't match the comics anyway)

Probably not... But maybe.

The fact that the movies and comics are not directly linked may be true, but it's inaccurate to assume there's no connection. The various media drive each other. The movies and cartoons exist because of the comics, and often draw storylines from them. The comics change because of what's popular in the movies. (As an example, they changed Raven in the comics to more closely match her abilities in the Teen Titans cartoon.) While it might take years to "catch up," it's naive to assume that a major change in comics won't eventually reach other, more mainstream media. If DC were to kill off Bruce Wayne, I guarantee you one of two things would happen:

A) Movies, cartoons, and the like would eventually change to match, or

B) The comics would "undo" the death.

It might take years, but one of the above would happen.

On a personal level? Batman isn't just a suit with a mask. The character includes both aspects, Batman and Bruce Wayne. I can guarantee you that while I'll watch "alternate takes" that take one out of the other--such as Batman Beyond--I will never watch, or purcahse, anything that purports to be "real continuity" that does so. I'm not interested in reading about or watching some guy in a bat suit. I want to see Batman. Nobody else but Bruce Wayne fits that description.

And frankly, it'd be foolish. Replacing Batman won't do a thing for comic sales in the big picture. Sure, it'll boos the circulation of a couple of issues, as people buy out of curiosity. But I have serious doubts that it'll attract that many long-term readers, and it may well lose some. If DC is really counting on the success of this sort of stunt to save their comics in general, I wouldn't bet even a buck on their chances--and I might almost be inclined to say they deserve to fail.

 

[Silver Moon]

The "general public" will think that Batman is Bruce Wayne due to TV and movies, so changing the secret identity in comics will not impact any other profits. Even if there is a public outcry (or much more likely, a public eye-rolling) sales will not be affected because none of those people buy comics in the first place.

They tried that back in '94 with the Knightfall storyline. It got some press, but nothing like the Death of Superman storyline. Unfortunately by immediatly bringing Supes back they blew any goodwill they had with the press who stopped reporting "comics" news after that.