D&D 5E Hypothetical Revised PHB: What Subclasses Makes the Cut?

[Aldarc]

Disclaimer: This is more of a speculative "what if" thread.

For purpose of the thread's discussion, let's imagine for a second that WotC at some speculative time decides to release a revised 5e PHB. (I'll leave the when and why for you to decide.) WotC decides to take this opportunity to switch out and add subclasses from the available classes from their wider range of materials that they have produced up til now. They include the caveat that at max they will only add one additional subclass per class in the revised 5e PHB to their total number of subclasses. So they may decide, for example, that the wizard will stay at eight subclasses rather than nine (8 + 1).

Which subclasses stay? Which subclasses are switched out, removed, and cut? Which subclasses are switched in? Which subclasses do you think would make the cut in such a hypothetical revised 5e PHB?

 

[Andrew Anderson]

Ooh.
Barbarian: Add the Beast subclass: it's a powerful archetype for characters.
Bard: Glamour emphasizes the pure performance nature of the Bard. I like Creation too, but I think it's less core that Glamour.
Cleric: Add the Order Domain. That's according to taste: I could make a case for a few others as well. There are still a bunch of domains missing for my tastes, I wouldn't purge any.
Druid: Shepherd subclass...to me, that's a shamanic sort of druid, Dreams is also a good choice, but only if 5e chooses to put a lot of emphasis on the Feywild and Fey creatures. Which they appear not to want to do.
Fighter: Add the Samurai...to me, that is the class that tells the story of a disciplined professional soldier that rises through the ranks until they become a ranking officer and sit in war councils. I want Banneret, as an example of the military leader type, but Banneret is ...underwhelming...as written.
Monks: Monks need...a lot. There were some updates in UA for the Way of the Four Elements: put those in and maybe it would be a viable class? Maybe? I would be comfortable switching out the Four Elements monk with the Long Death monk. Or maybe adding it, if the updates for Four Elements upgrade it enough.
Paladin: I would love to add Oath of the Crown, providing a new sort of focus for paladin characters. I could stand dropping Oath of the Ancients and replacing it with Oath of the Watchers, but that is a function of my taste.
Ranger: I just...don't know. There are so many optional rules around the ranger I think it becomes confusing. Pick a set of options and make them core and then we can talk.
Rogue: Drop the Assassin. Replace it with Mastermind (the con-man rogue) or Inquisitive (which is too good an archetype to miss) Inquisitive is probably best...the con-man archetype could be supported through skills. I really like Scout and would like to bring it in, but it steps on the rangers toes a little and rangers have enough problems without getting competition from a rogue archetype.
Sorceror: I want to say drop Wild Magic, because it manages to be both mechanically annoying and narratively bland. But it is a nice neutral option for sorcerors, so it will probably stay. Adding Divine Soul produces a powerful new archetype for Sorcerors, so I would bring that in, preferably to replace Wild Magic.
Warlock: Sigh. The warlock is an interesting archetype: I wish it was not based on pacts with sketchy powers.
Seriously, would you trust a devotee of Asmodeus or Chuthulu to stand watch while you were asleep? I'm tempted to drop both the One and the Fiend subclasses...actually, let's try that. Drop the Old One and the Fiend: add Celestial as a way to show someone touched by a weaker divine than a standard god, which creates Clerics. Then add the Hexblade (for your antiheroic Warlocks) and the Genie. I know the Genie is culturally bound, but it could be reskinned if your campaign requires.
Wizard: Just leave it.

 

[Davies]

Cut all the wizard schools and cleric domains, replace them with two or three specific styles of arcane and divine magic. (Possible examples: Exorcist and Templar for the cleric; Seer, Battlemage and Beguiler for the wizard.) Add the Mastermind to the Rogue and the Divine Soul to the Sorcerer. Swap the Circle of the Shepherd for the Circle of the Moon.

 

[Sithlord]

Cut all the wizard schools and cleric domains, replace them with two or three specific styles of arcane and divine magic. (Possible examples: Exorcist and Templar for the cleric; Seer, Battlemage and Beguiler for the wizard.) Add the Mastermind to the Rogue and the Divine Soul to the Sorcerer. Swap the Circle of the Shepherd for the Circle of the Moon.

I like your taste. Either scrap the Druid or make it so shapechanging doesn’t affect hp

 

[jgsugden]

Removing support for an existing class is a no-go. All stay because it would be very unpopular to ask half a group to get sparkly new upgrades and tell the rest of a group their PC doesn't even serve to have their class printed.

As for adding new materials, it would likely be adding some new feats, some new spells, some new equipment ... and perhaps editing existing ones a bit. As for a wholesale new class or heritage? Unlikely, but if they did, it would likely be the psionicist and artificer.

 

[Quartz]

For the fighter, ditch the Eldritch Knight. You can already do it in three ways: by being a fighter and taking the Magical Adept and Ritual Caster feats or by being a wizard and taking the various Armour Proficiency feats or by multiclassing.

 

[Aldarc]

Removing support for an existing class is a no-go. All stay because it would be very unpopular to ask half a group to get sparkly new upgrades and tell the rest of a group their PC doesn't even serve to have their class printed.

As for adding new materials, it would likely be adding some new feats, some new spells, some new equipment ... and perhaps editing existing ones a bit. As for a wholesale new class or heritage? Unlikely, but if they did, it would likely be the psionicist and artificer.

For purposes of this thread, I decided to focus strictly on subclasses rather than also add speculation about classes, lineages, etc. that could be switched out.

What I have in mind, for example, is more along the lines of WotC deciding to switch out the unpopular Four Elements monk for another more popular monk subclass or including the Hexblade alongside the existing warlock subclasses.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

No longer being an apology edition, but rather an edition with 50m+ potential players means I expect to see quite a lot of player-side changes, including classes being rejigged.

I expect there to be more choices whilst leveling for all classes, albeit likely with one option the "default" for those who prefer that (rather than forced choice). I think this will eliminate at least a few subclasses.

I expect Fighters to move to having BM-style manuevers as part of the base class, and BM to simply be better at them or able to access fancier ones. Champion will likely make it via options + subclass. EK will make it unless the multiclassing rules change drastically.

Rogues I think the Thief and AT are a lock, but as @Davies says, Mastermind should probably be in. Assassin out.

Clerics are tricky. I hope they reassess the current approach and move to away from god type = cleric type. It's lore-dumb and limiting. Having say melee, healet/buffer and invoker(nuker/CC) subclasses would make sense with maybe only 1-2 powers from god choice.

Wizards I think need a similar treatment to Clerics. School specialist could become one subclass not a ton.

Druid Circle of the Land should go, that sort of terrain specific stuff needs to be far from the PHB, and Shepard and something wild like Fire or whatever they're called should be in. Moon or something like it needs to stay or there will be riots, sadly.

Bard - I think suggestions to add Glamour are good. Replace Valour with Blade - Valour stuff becomes options. I habitually play Lore Bards but they should move most of that to options and Lore becomes Loremaster and focuses on knowing stuff not magic.

Monks need a top to bottom redesign. Maybe even renaming. Basic subclasses should essentially be Shaolin, Avatar and Ninja Monks. A lot of current abilities should become options, and Stunning Strike should be reworked or removed.

Warlocks are mostly in a good place but the Hexblade bargain should be rolled into the Pact of the Blade and made a default option (can't remember if it is).

Paladins I think the default ones are actually the most compelling ones by a fair margin. Most of the other Paladin subclasses need to be reworked.

Barbarians, I think they they need a bit of a re-work, and more choices. Berserker can probably largely become a matter of choices. Suggestions that Beast go in are good though it does need some re-working so it's a bit more lycanthropic and less "I turn body part into other body part" which is just a bit silly.

Sorcerer - Needs a re-work (ditch slots entirely for them) and perhaps even a re-concepting. I'd like to see Divine spells become part of the basic list, there's no earthly reason for most of them to not be. Body-mod stuff could also become option-based. Wild magic feels more important than most, but might be too.

Ranger - Basically most Ranger subclasses are either weird-as-hell or simply trying to correct problems with the base class. Being associated with a specific land-type should become a subclass and maybe not in the PHB. Beastmasters should be in and actually work properly.

 

[Stalker0]

So is the premise that each class gets the 2-3 subclasses, and so everything else is on the cutting room floor? Or can in theory all subclasses remain if desired?

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

1) I consider all of Tasha's alternate features are either made part of the class or, at least, appear somewhere in the book.

Classes:
Barbarian: Totem, Storm (slight rewrite if possible), Spirit. Go all in on the Primal source for barbarians.

Bard: Lore, Valour (slight rewrite if possible), Oration (the real generic, basic bard)

Cleric: Rewrite the class to have the cleric pick a domain (nature, war, life etc) AND an archetype (warpriest, exorcist, healer). Domain decide the extra spell list and one Channel feature. The archetype decides which kind of cleric your are in the field. If not, add Creation and replace Trickery by Twilight.

Druid: Rework the place of Wildshape in the class, its too big for the archetypes that dont use it much. So, Land, Moon and Shepherd.

Fighter: Battlemaster, Cavalier, Rune Knight, Psychic warior

Monk: Open Hand, Shadow, Dragon (UA), Kensei

Paladin: Crown, Conquest, Devotion, Glory

Ranger: Hunter, Beastmaster, Deepstalker

Rogue: Thief, Mastermind, Arcane Trickster

Sorcerer: Dragon, Storm, Shadow

Warlock: Fiend, Phatomless, Fey, Genie

Wizard: Scribe, Warmage, Diviner, Enchanter, Illusionist, Conjurer