I’m so tired of getting punked out by commoners. (rantish)

[Zappo]

Ah-hem... if I have to say, in the last session there was a nasty fight in a tavern, leaving only one PC standing, and the innkeeper told him he would keep the equipment of the PCs' aggressors as payment for all the damage they caused. The PC said no, and no again, threats were thrown by both, and eventually he attacked. The innkeeper promptly whopped his butt.

I'll have to decide next session a reason for which the innkeeper, after having been repeatedly insulted, attacked, and having his inn half-destroyed should not just kill all the PCs while they are helpless (one of them was killed, another was turned into a pumpkin, and another into a blind kobold with no arms, and the last one went insane due to zero WIS from a nasty poison on the innkeeper's blade).

Sounds like I've got the same problem as Methinkus' DM?

Well, fact is, the inn is Bosetti's inn in Pandemonium (see Dead Gods), and anyone capable of running an inn all by himself in the third layer of one of the most inhospitable planes is necessarily quite capable to defend himself. Pity the PC didn't realize that.

Anyway, there are many ways to make the problem so apparent that the DM cannot deny it. Gez suggested one. But is this the right approach? Doing so would be like challenging the DM. I suggest you try talking to him first.

 

[novyet]

I've been guilty of that myself, not to the extent of "punking out" any of my pc's but on occasion I'll have a npc who isn't just 1 expert or commoner 1 or 2. Maybe the barkeeper was a war hero or the herbalist used to be a druid. But I sure as heck wouldn't put in super npc's just to annoy the pc's like that. That's kind of strange.

 

[Numion]

IIRC, the Middle-Earth Roleplaying game (the old one by ICE) had supplements that were just like this. Starting a ruckus on some backwater town was deadly. Of course it had something to do with the rules, but still.

I usually keep commoners just commoners. Perhaps the larger towns will have couple of wizards and such of higher levels, but town guard for example, is always level 1-3 dudes.

 

[Codragon]

way too far

I think that DMs do this type of thing to avoid PCs from running around killing/maiming NPCs and robbing every store. Your DM took it a bit too far though.

PCs that have saved a town a few times deserve some respect. Weaponsmiths should compete with each other to get the PCs business! As should inns, etc.

However, if the PCs are being way too arrogant all the time, there a many more creative methods to use than making every storekeeper a level 12 fighter....

such as:

*alignment change, alignment change, alignment change

*instead of every storekeeper being level 12, maybe 1 of 20 storekeepers (that they bully) is level 15 (the rest being level 1-4)

*innkeepers union posts wanted signs, the PC become universally hated...

*rival adventures (arrogant just the like PCs!!) come along to fight over "turf"

*a self-rightous, narrow-minded party of high level paladins hears of the party's evil deeds and decides to hunt them down

 

[Voneth]

There is the other side of the coin, so to speak

Some player decide that they should have everyone grovel and give them a hook up all the time. Of course a blacksmith is going to spit on you when you ask where his competetion has set up shop! And while people may give you discounts, perhaps they fear they can't afford to give you stuff for free for cost of materials (Hey I appreciate that you killed the monster that tried to eat my family, but we'd like to be able to eat too!)

Some of this is partialy related meta game wise to DND's level structure. Players have "advanced" in levels and feel that they have earned their stripes -- without the social connections to back it up. (Yeah, you saved our town -- but we had to pay you to do it, that sort of cuts down on our gratitiude). Another part of this structure is that unless a group of men are real hoss, a squad of city guard should be able to take them down. Unfortunenatly in DND this mechanic is only accomplished by making city guards butch. My guess is that when PC reach 8th level is when city guards become moot to the legendary status of PCs.

Original motivation has something to do with it. In addition to mercenary PC, the villagers may have not expected the PCs to survive and are a little stunned that they now have men in their midst who are capable of taking down monsters, sort of intimidating. What will these men want next, they could kill us all in a blink of an eye!! Oh they only want to treat our town as their own playground ... great we traded monsters for warlords!

Humility goes a long way.

 

[Plane Sailing]

Another thing that may affect NPC's attitude is Charisma. You don't say what your characters Cha is, but if it was low (e.g. 7 or less) then it is quite reasonable that you don't get respect *even if* you saved the village. People who use Cha as a dump stat deserve to get dumped on!

It may be that your character has an average or high Cha though - in which case the situation seems somewhat strange, I'll agree.

 

[Snoweel]

It's a bit heavy-handed, but I don't allow Evil PC's IMC.

And obviously, should a PC become Evil, he/she becomes an NPC (no save).

Likewise, while the PC's should at least have the opportunity to become heroes, there should be forces in the campaign world capable of bringing them down.

Four 8th level characters should still be easy pickings for the 30 soldiers (including elites) sent to bring them to justice.

Not only should campaigns have fewer high-level NPC's, they should have more mid-level ones too.

 

[Darkness]

Four 8th level characters should still be easy pickings for the 30 soldiers (including elites) sent to bring them to justice.

How? If one of these four characters is a wizard or sorcerer, most of the normal guards will be dead within one combat round, leaving the elites with a fight that they'll have a hard time winning unless they are of comparable power to the PCs or outnumber them by quite a bit.
So tell me: How tough would you make these elites, and how many of the 30 soldiers should be elites?

 

[Pielorinho]

I also think talking to your DM is a good way to handle it. IMC, characters generally have the option to be putzes to the NPCs they meet: once they pass fifth level, they'll probably be the big boys in all but the largest towns and cities.

However, if they're really awful to the NPCs, revenge can be had. The innkeeper can knife the PCs as they sleep. The militia can use a combination of surprise, silence stones, and superior numbers to grapple and overpower the PCs. Other adventuring parites can be called in to deal with the troublemakers.

Consequences definitely exist -- but they're not always immediate. Talk to your DM about this, and hopefully he'll see that removing the ubercommoners won't necessarily ruin the fun.

Daniel

 

[Pielorinho]

I also think talking to your DM is a good way to handle it. IMC, characters generally have the option to be putzes to the NPCs they meet: once they pass fifth level, they'll probably be the big boys in all but the largest towns and cities.

However, if they're really awful to the NPCs, revenge can be had. The innkeeper can knife the PCs as they sleep. The militia can use a combination of surprise, silence stones, and superior numbers to grapple and overpower the PCs. Other adventuring parites can be called in to deal with the troublemakers.

Consequences definitely exist -- but they're not always immediate. Talk to your DM about this, and hopefully he'll see that removing the ubercommoners won't necessarily ruin the fun.

Daniel