I *almost* bought an Avalanche Press book

[der_kluge]

I obviously don't have any kind of statistics to back this up, but just use empirical evidence. Go into any game store in this country. There pretty much isn't anyone that 16 and under in them. If they are, they're buying Yu-Gi-Oh! cards, or another collectible card games. The 12-18 d20 demoggraphic is ultra tiny, and I would be willing to bet represents less than 5% of the total d20 population.
The core of the population falls between 25 and 35, with another large chunk falling in the 21 to 24 and 36 to 40 categories.

And the thing of it is, all of these people are of age. So, if they want to buy smut, they can buy smut. They don't need it on their d20 publications to get off. Sorry, Eric's Grandmother.

 

[kenjib]

I would be completely embarassed if one of my non-rpg friends saw this book on my shelf. Nude pics are no big deal, but there are compounding factors here. First off, I agree completely that the subjects tend to look like trashy Hustle whores with silicone implants. This one is perhaps the worst IMO, as the women look like they're doing a disco inferno lapdance: http://www.avalanchepress.com/miva/...e_Code=AP&Product_Code=0915&Category_Code=d20

Second, it's not just trashy pics, but it's trashy pics plus D&D. As if D&D needs more things that make it look bad. It would be hard to have non-rpg friends understand what the game is all about if this is what they see.

Hehe -- one of my friends has a remarkable talent. He can open any rpg book and instantly find the absolute worst sentence to read out-of-context in the entire book to read aloud. If he grabbed the old 1e Fiend Folio, for instance, he would instantly see the sentence where it describes how flumphs are propelled by gas when he opened the book. It's uncanny and really funny, actually. Hehe -- I can imagine what the first book he grabbed would be if an Avalanche book was on my shelf. lol!

 

[Buttercup]

I haven't bought any Avalanche Press products, because they offend me. Now, I'm certainly not a prude. I don't object to sexuality in appropriate venues at all. But on the cover of a gaming book isn't my idea of an appropriate venue. Those covers clearly say that they aren't interested in my business, because they think all women are is T & A. And further, that they don't want my money. You know the, 'shut up, honey, and just come over here' attitude. I realise the folks at AP may not feel this way about women, but that is what their covers say to me.

If they produced products with covers that didn't piss me off, I might take the trouble to actually open up one of their books to see if I liked the contents. Until then, forget it.

Oh, and in case you're wondering, I'm not fond of Boris Vallejo's work either. His women all look like inflatable dolls to me.

 

[Sixchan]

*raises hand*
I was playing and (when I had christmas money) buying D&D stuff when I was ten.


*goes and looks at AP's site to see the covers*
Hey, they don't look so bad. But somehow, the Fey one doesn't look right. Faeries are meant to be cute, too. Best faeries I've ever seen were in Fern Gully. And if they're wearing that sort of clothing, it HAS to be green or its not right.

But yeah, I wouldn't buy that, but not for exactly the same reason. A bunch of cartoon faeries would have looked so much better...

 

[Sagan Darkside]

Am I alone in feeling this way?

No. I refuse to buy those books.

I believe you can judge most books by their cover- for it shows priorities of the publisher.

It is a shame. I understand they have an arabian fantasy book out, and that is a favorite genre of mine.

But, I would rather keep my money and self-respect instead of buying their books. I believe my money should go to items I can respect.

If they decide to change their cover policy, then I will be pleased to give their books a chance.

SD

 

[Krug]

Funny that Avalanche Press has a section for Family Games...

 

[jgbrowning]

You want to know if there is a shift in the D&D audience toward the older age group?

yeah, i of course have nothing to back my opinions (otherwise they'd have to facts, i guess ) but i think the DnD audience is older than they might think.

joe b.

 

[jgbrowning]

I haven't bought any Avalanche Press products, because they offend me. Now, I'm certainly not a prude. I don't object to sexuality in appropriate venues at all. But on the cover of a gaming book isn't my idea of an appropriate venue. Those covers clearly say that they aren't interested in my business, because they think all women are is T & A. And further, that they don't want my money. You know the, 'shut up, honey, and just come over here' attitude. I realise the folks at AP may not feel this way about women, but that is what their covers say to me.

If they produced products with covers that didn't piss me off, I might take the trouble to actually open up one of their books to see if I liked the contents. Until then, forget it.

Oh, and in case you're wondering, I'm not fond of Boris Vallejo's work either. His women all look like inflatable dolls to me.

Ditto.

joe b.

 

[Skywalker]

I purchased Celtic Age and it was a fantastic book. I was severely tempted with the Celtic Faerie book but also couldn't get past the cover. I didn't buy it.

I can handle provocative. An effort to make the picture appropriate to the material would have been appreciated. However, all I see is a porn-star women with stick on wings on a fantasy backdrop. Ah well. I thought that they may have learned with Celtic Age.

 

[Alzrius]

I don't think that I'd be ashamed to be seen reading that book.

For one thing, it isn't a book of porn, its a gaming book that just happens to have a risque cover. If people assume that it was some sort of smutty picture book, they'd just be judging the book by its cover, and we know what to think about people who do that.

I also certainly wouldn't feel "dirty" or "unclean" while looking through it either. Maybe its because I'm not married, but I feel that there isn't anything inherently wrong with people looking a sexy images of the opposite sex (or even the same sex if thats their thing). People have desires, and there's nothing "unclean" about that. What we have on the cover of that book is just Avalanche trying to lure more people into browsing their book by appealing to those desires. It is, ultimately, a marketing gimmick, and I certainly don't feel offended by it.

I also don't think (and I know I'm going to get flamed for this) that the cover is offensive to women either. While the girl on the cover is supposed to be sexy, that doesn't necessarily equate that all women are thusly just sex objects.

I just don't see the problem here, except that people seem to be looking for something to be offended about.