I *almost* bought an Avalanche Press book

[jgbrowning]

Re: Re: well since we are here

Well, count me as one vote against this particular cover.

It doesn't offend me, per se. Nor is it bad quality work.

Frankly, if you'll forgive my candor, I think it's just plain silly. Putting a Fantasy Bikini Chick(tm) on the cover of a book of familiars just screams "gratuitous use of flesh." I wouldn't buy a book like that, not because I'm ashamed of it, but because I couldn't take it seriously.

Just my opinion, of course. But you did ask.

My first response to all fantasy cover art is, "What part of this picture is contextually necessisary?" My second question is, "What part of this picture could change and still convey the intention/mood?" and my third question is "Does this cover art accurately represent the subject of the book?"

Personally, i think the woman should have a robe and equipment. Honestly where are he spell components? Her waterskin? etc.

Also, what is the "artistic loss" if you put clothes on her?

I tend to agree with mousferatu.

joe b.

 

[jgbrowning]

Re: Mouseferatu

Yeah don't worry about giving us your opinion. We actually change things based on opinions. well, some things.

Davis

Well Davis, i saw a picture of you....


you'd look better with a giant purple mohawk!

joe b.

*I've bought your products so you better listen to me! *

 

[Alzrius]

I think your missing the point a little bit.

Would you be ashamed to be caught reading this if it had a picture of a lithly muscled naked but for a g-string man on the cover? What if you could sort of see his "package"? Perhaps that wouldn't bother you, but is would surely bother a lot of people.

I'm not missing the issue, thats just a different scenario. This isn't if people are worried their sexual orientation will be mistaken due to the covers, its why people find the scantily-clad women offensive. It's a heterosexual man who is doing most of the complaining, not a woman saying she doesn't want to be labelled as a lesbian.

Also, doesn't the idea that someone is making a book about RPG's and they want to use SEX to sell their product? Its not the sex that most of use find offensive (I'd wager that almost 100% of use actually like sex ) but the use of it to sell products that are not related to the subject. Now if it was a book about sex, the cover wouldn't bother me a bit, although i'd prefer if a man was on the cover as well given our cultural history of female opression/sexualization.

The thing is though, sex sells pretty much anything, commercialism has proven that. We hear "You Sexy Thing" being played on Burger King commericals while a cheeseburger is being shown on screen, so its really not that far off to think that a book about fairies could have a sexy lady on the cover.

 

[Inzae]

I am thinking

I am thinking that fter I call Steve tomoroow and tell we might just be dropping the cover I'll look like a corpse in coffin. It was my idea originally so the cover will probably come out of my paycheck until I write up the adven that goes with the pic.

OUCH

davis

 

[Alzrius]

So you're definately dropping the cover you showed us earlier?

 

[Inzae]

get this

This is how the cover will look

*voice of automoton* we respond to our customers needs

davis

 

[Troll Lord]

HOLD THE PONY

Being the Goodly Troll that I am I rarely inform my partners of what comes across my computer. And unbeknownst to Davis the final cover has come in.

Daniel Horne did a wonderful job and he removed some of the more fleshy tones and suited her up. Removed the horns too, etc etc. Well, heck here it is.

This image is a little blury I suspect as it came though odd on the computer. That and my computer is on its very last leg...she won't defrag anymore and I can't clean her up (ding fir blast it)

Look forward to reading your responses!

Steve

 

[Inzae]

and

And part of the point of the Book of Familiars is that familliars are not just available to MUs and Src's, but to all classes - we here at troll lords are very PC..
davis

 

[jgbrowning]

Originally posted by Alzrius
I'm not missing the issue, thats just a different scenario. This isn't if people are worried their sexual orientation will be mistaken due to the covers, its why people find the scantily-clad women offensive. It's a heterosexual man who is doing most of the complaining, not a woman saying she doesn't want to be labelled as a lesbian.

Would you feel uncomfortable? To me its not an issue of why you feel uncomfortable, is more of a do you feel uncomfortable. Again, you may not, but i'm sure others will.

And why would a company put out something that obviously makes a lot of people uncomforatable enough to not buy their stuff? I guess they think more people buy it just because of the cover than the number of people who don't buy it just because of the cover. Honestly, i'd be interested in seeing what sort of market survey AP has going on that makes them decide to actively alienate part of their potential consumers and how they have determined they are benefiting from such actions. Especially considering the relatively small market to begin with.

Personally, given the length of time this issue has been going on, and since i doubt if anyone actually thinks they would end up losing customers (really, who's going to buy it to look a the cover when you can just get on the internet and see the real thing?) were they to have covers that don't have cheesecake on them, i'm starting to believe that the AP guys have decided to do it because they want to be contrary. Not that they really think they are doing whats fiscally best for the company.

Now, i have no problems with people making financially not-the-best decisions because of a moral/ethical reason. I just dont have to agree with their particular morals/ethics. And i don't, so i don't buy their stuff. Even used. Even with the covers torn off. Even the ones that don't have those types of covers. Even the ones that i'm really interested in otherwise. In fact I don't even pick them up off the shelf if i see what they are before i do it...

Of course, i don't place any sort of onus on anyone who does purchase books with those covers. That's a personal decision and im not here to change peoples minds. They make their own choices and that's their right.

The thing is though, sex sells pretty much anything, commercialism has proven that. We hear "You Sexy Thing" being played on Burger King commericals while a cheeseburger is being shown on screen, so its really not that far off to think that a book about fairies could have a sexy lady on the cover.

I wasn's disagreeing with you about sex being used to sell everything. I was just saying that that, in and of itself, is enough of a reason for some people to not purchase a product. I'm not terribly interested in what is an effective marketing ploy, rather more so that im interested in not supporting a mindset i find offensive. I'm not trying to change the world, I just try to make sure i'm as least hypocritical as i can be. I don't eat at BK either... Sometime you can't avoid it, but when you can, i do.

joe b.

 

[davewoodrum]

After reading the many posts to the original line of this topic I have just realized that I must be completely shallow and morally bankrupt altogether!
Actually though I am not into Arabic/desert settings much I was going to get Endless Sands simply FOR THE COVER.. ouch.
The reason being is beyond (and within) the trashiness there is a valuable degree of camp humor in the Endless Sands cover... keep in mind this is supposed to be Arabic fantasy.... and you have the auburn/redhaired girl in the silver go-go boots doing the "hottie" dance before an overwhelmed Arabic woman....
I Scream Of Genie!
Shamefully enough this would be one of the industry paintings that I would probably buy a full color print of.
But then you must keep in mind that I'm probably a hopeless cause in the campaign for tastefulness.... I took a break from game design to get involved in the local independent wrestling scene... where my most favored highlight was having a "drag queen" help me beat up a midget opponent while the ref's head was turned.