I *almost* bought an Avalanche Press book

[Alzrius]

To the Troll Lord guys, to be honest, while the new cover looks nice, I'm rather disappointed that you folded so fast on this issue.

A vocal minority spoke out against one concept, and you guys were the first ones to change your practices because of that. Now, no one is going to write you an angry letter saying that they demand more scantily-clad women on the cover, but I think you should have stood by your decision, since a lot of people don't see anything wrong with that either.

I know a company must respond to the wishes of its customers ultimately, but there's little respect in folding to criticism about what people find "offensive". TSR did that years ago by removing demons and devils from their game, and they still catch flak over that today. Same thing here.

 

[Bamphalas]

Its slightly ironic though that if you click on the picture to get back to the page full of pics there, most of the female fairies shown there do indeed look like that "whorish" drawing (which I wouldn't call whorish at all, since she's not naked, and not making a blatantly "come hither" motion - whereas the pic you link to is a fairy girl with her breast and ass both clearly visible).

It's too bad that link has so much crappy art on it. I just grabbed one of the first links I found with his art on it. Try this one, it is his official website: http://www.worldoffroud.com/

"Whorish" doesn't have to be naked. IMO tiny G-strings and silicone boobies carry more of that connotation. Even if you put AP's covergirl in slacks and a t-shirt, the "hands spreading thighs" pose helps to make her look like a pornstar. On the same note, nakedness doesn't automatically mean pornography either.

Troll Lord: I must say I really like this alternate cover. You have a beautiful, strong and sexy woman, and it's classy. It reads quality. Now I'll have to thumb through it to see if it actually is.

 

[jgbrowning]

To the Troll Lord guys, .........
I know a company must respond to the wishes of its customers ultimately, but there's little respect in folding to criticism about what people find "offensive". TSR did that years ago by removing demons and devils from their game, and they still catch flak over that today. Same thing here.

What? He's doing the purple mohawk?!?!

THAT ROCKS



joe b.

edit: on a more serious note... TSR caved not to their customers, but to "public" [ie. non-gamers]. There's quite a big difference.

 

[Inzae]

actually

actually we have not folded yet. Daniel had already reworked the cover because he did not like it. Like I said, I was the one who made the decision to go with that cover adn gave liscence to Dnaiel to do what he loke and he has improved it every time he sends it in.

and after looking at this rendition I have decided to stick with it come hell or high water. i really like it. The horned, skin bikini thing was just alittle toomuch for me - gave all the wrong ideas - but we have been working hard on a cover and have yet to come to good decision (there is a triumverate here and majority vote wins).

but I just got off the phone with Steve and he 120% behind the cover now.

Steve even chastised me for pandering to the public. But hey, I am just a nice guy trying to please everyone. Sadly, if we had the money I wuld personalize a cover for every person who bought the book. But I don't.

My biggest worry was not the sexual content of the book (I, in particular do not care about that, I think if the mood one wants to convey is sensualness or sexuality, then convey it. Nothing wrong with it). My worry was that it conveyed nothing to do with Familliars. But I thin now it does as it moves the focus away from the female figure back to a broader theme incorporating the tiger.

davis

 

[Alzrius]

on a more serious note... TSR caved not to their customers, but to "public" [ie. non-gamers]. There's quite a big difference.

Considering that the title of this thread is "I *almost* bought an Avalanche Press book", the opinions here can't really be called those of customers though.

 

[jgbrowning]

Considering that the title of this thread is "I *almost* bought an Avalanche Press book", the opinions here can't really be called those of customers though.

hehe, well i guess no, they can't...

joe b.

 

[Gez]

PSS: Everytime I hear/read "Pornography" the first thing in my mind is the Cure album.. *yeah, good'ol times

Ah ? For myself, that would rather be Brassens ("j'suis l'pornographe du phonographe, le polisson de la chanson").











Inzae, the worst problem I have with the first pic you proposed is the cover title is "Book of Famaliar".

 

[Troll Lord]

HUZAH!!!!!!!!!!

Gez thank you! A few days ago I slapped the title on BoF for the internet and posted it up. Within in a few hours I got an email from a friend of outs saying "Dude you misspelled the title. You wrote Familiars and it should be FamaLLiars. I kept looking at those double Ls saying to myself, dagnabbit, familiar doesn't have two Ls. LOL I got so caught up in the two LLs that I never say the "A". LOL Ding fir blast it!

Thanks, now I can fix it.

In a side note, my wordspell won't recognize FamiliarS, only familiar. So its constantly underlined . . . of course I could just add the plural to the dictionary, but I'm kind of lazy that way.

Alzirius (I think I just butchered your name): A side note. Davis altered me to this thread only yesterday. Daniel changed the tone of the picture without even knowing about the TLG discussion about her skin and horns as I'm alwasy reluctant to ask an artist to change things because I make such a stink about giving them creative license. (Now if that wasn't a run on sentence I don't know what is. LOL) In short we didn't cave into the thread...(davis tends to over-react to these things, he's the sensitive mangina type..whew I'm going to catch hell for that one!). In short, as I usually do when I catch Davis on boards-not-our-own I'm going to say "DAVIS: shut up the jawing!" LOL

Steve

 

[CaptainCalico]

In some cases they can

Considering that the title of this thread is "I *almost* bought an Avalanche Press book", the opinions here can't really be called those of customers though.

In my case they can. I have Noble Steeds, and I'm considering Celtic Age, because they both look useful for the style of the world I'm building. Said world will also include Fae, but from a source other than the Avalanche book, because I simply will not spend my money on anything that tacky-looking. So this was a case of "they had me, and they lost me".

 

[Henry]

I'll tell you the problem I have with Avelanche Press.

1. All but three of their product line has a woman on the cover, in a state of undress. Showing skin has never bothered me; showing more than a Victoria's Secret model however does.

2. Half of those women in question have had a variation of the same open-legged, "come and get it" pose.

Evidence:

http://www.avalanchepress.com/line_d20Defiant.php

http://www.avalanchepress.com/line_d20CelticAge.php

The "Come and get it" menu:
-----------------------------------------
Jade and Steel
The Little People
Doom of Odin
Vlad the Impaler
Endless Sands
Aztecs

Either the artist or the art director seem to have a one-track mind.

As a consumer, it bugs me, and keeps me from buying. In fact, it turns me off of buying ANY of their product line, because I have to wonder if they use this much effort to differentiate their material from the rest of the pack, how good is that material really? Is it all really flash over substance?

As a gamer, it embarrasses me to show this and expect non-gamers to see it as anything more than titillation. I refuse to show this kind of thing to a co-worker and say, "this is what gaming in the Viking Age is to me." Or, "This is the kind of images evoked by a game set in medieval Europe."

It's also why I don't buy Boris Vallejo, incidentally. The only thing I ever owned by him was a Dragon Magazine cover. As someone earlier said, it's not fantasy to me, so much as it is a nude photo stuck in front of a fantasy backdrop.

But that's just my opinion.