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I *almost* bought an Avalanche Press book

Synicism, your statements have merit, but I can't help but judge the book by its cover. I'm a d20 writer myself, and if I thought for one second that my work was going to exist within the confines of a book with a cover such as that, I'd pull my work immediately, and/or demand that the publisher put a different picture on it. In fact, the publisher I write for, gets my suggestions on what kind of cover I think the book should have, and I give them feedback on it.
The very fact that AP puts whatever cover they feel appropriate, in my mind, speaks volumes for the kinds of quality and the kind of process that they have in place. I'll not support them in their endeavors.
 

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My trouble with Avalanche's covers is that I don't think the artist is very good. All the women on the cover either look like skanks, or they have some sort of deformity.

Ironically, most of the covers with Bimbos on them also have back covers by the other artist, Terry Strickland. Some, like the one for Atlantis, is really really snazzy looking.

Anyway, I also wish they'd take the extra money used on a semi-famous artist and make their books longer instead. Ultimately, that would probably help sales more than their covers.
 

Re: Re: Re: I *almost* bought an Avalanche Press book

Arani Korden said:


Of course you should judge the book by its cover. That's what the cover is for.

Hey, that's actually an insightful comment.

Personally, I don't think that covers like this one or like this one are really dangerous for the children. You see women with less clothing and more silicon daily on the TV (not necessarily on pr0n or stuff like that, simply in these stupid TV games or variety programmes with brainless bimbos --admittedly, the worst of it can be seen on the Italian TVs) or on billboards displayed everywhere in the city and along the roads.

Covers like this one or this one are probably more dangerous. I imagine a stupid kid may strangle him/herself if s/he try to use to use a bow like the girl on the former, or may be frozen to death is s/he think s/he could go skiing with exposed skin like the girl on the latter.
 

Re: Re: Re: Re: I *almost* bought an Avalanche Press book

Gez said:


Covers like this one or this one are probably more dangerous. I imagine a stupid kid may strangle him/herself if s/he try to use to use a bow like the girl on the former, or may be frozen to death is s/he think s/he could go skiing with exposed skin like the girl on the latter.

Whoa. Come on. I hope you meant to be sarcastic. So right now we're responsible for covers? If you see a cover with someone scaling a cliff does that automatically mean that some kid will go out and scale it? Or a picture of some adventurer fighting a tiger... lets not take things too far.

Frankly, compared to computer games the illustrations are nothing. We're talking about near-porn for video games; as for the covers yes I would be careful if I have kids around, but if it's a good product I would buy it. I still would prefer covers that are more relevant to the subject matter though.
 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: I *almost* bought an Avalanche Press book

Krug said:
I still would prefer covers that are more relevant to the subject matter though.

You mean the games aren't about half naked women?


Seriously though... The covers are a little to cheesecake-y for my taste, but I would buy them if the material in it was something I really wanted.
 

Re: Re: Re: Re: I *almost* bought an Avalanche Press book

Gez said:


Hey, that's actually an insightful comment.

Personally, I don't think that covers like this one or like this one are really dangerous for the children. You see women with less clothing and more silicon daily on the TV (not necessarily on pr0n or stuff like that, simply in these stupid TV games or variety programmes with brainless bimbos --admittedly, the worst of it can be seen on the Italian TVs) or on billboards displayed everywhere in the city and along the roads.

Covers like this one or this one are probably more dangerous. I imagine a stupid kid may strangle him/herself if s/he try to use to use a bow like the girl on the former, or may be frozen to death is s/he think s/he could go skiing with exposed skin like the girl on the latter.


....looking at Doom (Dom?) Of Odin's cover... wow! I never knew vikings dressed like that!
 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: I *almost* bought an Avalanche Press book

davewoodrum said:



....looking at Doom (Dom?) Of Odin's cover... wow! I never knew vikings dressed like that!

Come on, it's a fantasy game! These aren't Earth vikings. Not only do they dress like that, but they are also magical race with breast that defy gravity and wax and wane with the changing moon. I think it was full when the painting was done.
 
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: I *almost* bought an Avalanche Press book

davewoodrum said:


....looking at Doom (Dom?) Of Odin's cover... wow! I never knew vikings dressed like that!

Fool. Don't you know Vikings INVENTED black underwear?

And they say RPGS don't teach you anything...
 

die_kluge said:
Synicism, your statements have merit, but I can't help but judge the book by its cover. I'm a d20 writer myself, and if I thought for one second that my work was going to exist within the confines of a book with a cover such as that, I'd pull my work immediately, and/or demand that the publisher put a different picture on it. In fact, the publisher I write for, gets my suggestions on what kind of cover I think the book should have, and I give them feedback on it. The very fact that AP puts whatever cover they feel appropriate, in my mind, speaks volumes for the kinds of quality and the kind of process that they have in place. I'll not support them in their endeavors.

So am I. As a matter of fact, I wrote for Avalanche because I had a friend in the company. I didn't appreciate the covers that were going on my stuff, but after while, I just stopped caring.

The APL guys are very knowledgeable about what they do. To be honest, in terms of the historical research that goes into their usual product, I was way out of my league.

As a freelancer, you know that when you write for a company, you write a work for hire. By and large, you don't keep the rights to your piece. And I doubt there is a single publisher who *won't* insist on that kind of a relationship, although I've seen many a contract that failed to take basic principles of copyright law into account.

But I digress. The company pays you to write a manuscript and when you're done, it belongs to them. Then they pay someone else to draw art for it.

The art is, frankly, secondary to the text. And that's the way it should be. I don't care what the pictures in a game book look like. I care about what the text says. If I judged books by their covers, I'd never have bought Seas of Blood, Beyond Monks: Art of the Fight, or Masters of Arms. And I've been very pleased with all of these.

At the same time, some books I snapped up because they looked cool on the cover frankly weren't worth the paper they are printed on. Sword and Fist and Deities and Demigods, anyone? Looked great. Should have bought those GURPS supplements I wanted instead. Darn my FLGS and its no returns policy.

Generally speaking, Avalanche puts out some good stuff if you want historical-type roleplaying. Their editor in chief is a phD in history.

You're not objecting to the quality of the book. Most of APL's books lately have been very high quality. Their bindings are solid, the paper is sturdy, and the ink doesn't run. You're objecting because you don't want to see a fantasy swordbunny on a book cover.

I agree that the cheesecake marketing angle isn't very mature. But neither is the kind of backlash Avalanche has been getting. In a freelancer-driven market like d20, consumers (that's us, folks) really need to do some homework before grabbing up the new shiny book on the shelf.

Would you rather have a good book with a lousy cover or a great-looking paperweight that you would never put anywhere near your gaming table?
 

Re: Re: Re: I *almost* bought an Avalanche Press book

Bagpuss said:
I think the point here is we are not all adults at least not those that will see the book. We often play at a friends house and he has two young kids, sometimes another couple have to bring their young son with

I believe that Chessex put out a product called Dragon Skin that you can use to cover up your game books to protect the covers or, in this case, to shield them from impressionable eyes.

Most of my paperback RPG books wind up in folders in binders for the same kind of protection. Especially my older White Wolf and GURPS books. Then again, they've been reduced to a bunch of loose pages.

If a book has something good in it, then I'll pick it up if I think I can use it. If the cover is really, really bad, I'll stick it in a book cover or a binder. Or I'll photocopy the pages that I want from the book and put it in my "3rd party crunchy bits" binder with stuff from the other books I've purchased just for part of the content.

Come on, folks. It's a book cover. It's a piece of paper. Chill out and play!
 

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