I am forseeing problems with feats

[Fifth Element]

That said, it's ridiculous to say that we shouldn't complain or criticize when we see something that looks like a problem, just because we don't see the big picture. Big picture or not, now is when our criticisms might alert the designers to a problem they'd overlooked. If we wait to see what the big picture looks like, it'll be too late to do anything about it.

If that's why you're bringing up potential problems, you're doing it in the wrong place. Some of the designers read these forums some of the time. But I expect the great majority of ENWorld comments about 4E go unnoticed by most WotC designers. If you have a real concern, you should try contacting WotC directly.

I have serious doubts, however, that people having access to only a tiny fraction of the rules are better equipped to spot problems than the professional game designers and developers, or the many playtest groups that exist.

 

[Ahglock]

*Shrug* I don't care either way. I was just pointing out what I feel to be a poor feat. To me, that reeks of a feat that in 3e would do something like "You may pay 50pp to gain a +1 circumstance check to Tumble when in the presence of both copier machines and office chairs."

Since no one else is agreeing with you, I'll chime in and say yes it is a craptasitc feat. You may get what 17 feats by level 30, so a feat while a smaller investment in 4e than in 3e it is still a decent investment. And so what you spend a feat so maybe once a night you can act one extra round, and your initiative may still suck so all the cool wall of fire uses don't work after blowing an action point and a feat. I'm not sure I'd let the AP mechanic handle it on its own since then no PC would ever lose a round in an ambush unless I was an ambush happy DM.

Still it really is a crappy feat unless you get ambushed a lot, and even then unless APs refresh quickly its only mediocre. If I am going to spend a feat on an ability that is likely going to be once a session and cost me an AP it better be more impressive than getting to act in the surprise round.

 

[Sitara]

I personally had hoped that feats granitng a skill bonus would go away, as they didi in SAGA, withthe sole exception of skill focus. (which is supposed to replace those other feats).

Seriously, who took investigator?

 

[Stogoe]

Still it really is a crappy feat unless you get ambushed a lot, and even then unless APs refresh quickly its only mediocre. If I am going to spend a feat on an ability that is likely going to be once a session and cost me an AP it better be more impressive than getting to act in the surprise round.

You have no idea what 4e feats even are. You're taking your memories of 3e's "Grant Cool Ability" feats and assuming that they are going to show up as feats in 4e, when we know that the powerful, core ability-granting feats are being changed to Class Features.

We should be expecting feats along the power level of Alertness and Spell Focus - small bonuses to abilities you already have - rather than Reserve or Tactical feats.

 

[smetzger]

Instead, I always wanted to use them to let players do things that the game wouldn't handle properly, such as clever strategy or problem solving solutions. That's just me though, I know many people like to play 100% RAW and any deviation is frowned upon....

I agree with this.
I didn't like how Eberron did AP.

I also don't like needing a feat and an action point to do something. IMO an AP alone should be able to do it.

Codeifying APs and what they can do complicates and slows down the game. I would much rather have just a few APs but they can pretty much do whatever.

 

[The Little Raven]

Codeifying APs and what they can do complicates and slows down the game. I would much rather have just a few APs but they can pretty much do whatever.

Vaguely defined terms are much more likely to complicate and slow things down as they are subjected to DM interpretation in each circumstance, rather than having blanket rules that don't require DM fiat.

The difference between Mage's free-from magic system and it's use of Rotes is a prime example, as the free-form spells take much more time to adjudicate than pre-written Rotes.

 

[ZombieRoboNinja]

I personally had hoped that feats granitng a skill bonus would go away, as they didi in SAGA, withthe sole exception of skill focus. (which is supposed to replace those other feats).

Seriously, who took investigator?

I actually kind of like the new Alertness. The non-flat-footed bit is a nice combat advantage that makes sense together with the skill bonus. So a bonus to Perception might not be worth spending a whole feat, and a bonus to surprise rounds might not come up very often, but together they might be worth a feat slot.

 

[Ahglock]

You have no idea what 4e feats even are. You're taking your memories of 3e's "Grant Cool Ability" feats and assuming that they are going to show up as feats in 4e, when we know that the powerful, core ability-granting feats are being changed to Class Features.

We should be expecting feats along the power level of Alertness and Spell Focus - small bonuses to abilities you already have - rather than Reserve or Tactical feats.

Other feats sucking doesn't make this one any less the suck. And this is a paragon level feat??? That is all I get when spending an AP and a feat at 11+ level? It is lame, if everything else is just as lame, that just makes feats a whole bunch of lame.

 

[Stogoe]

It's completely unfair to complain that 4e feats aren't exactly the same as 3e feats, and intellectually dishonest to say they objectively suck when you're seeing them out of context of the entire system.

4e feats are weaker than 3e feats, sure, but everyone gets a boatload more class powers so it's okay. Feats don't serve the same purpose in the new edition.

 

[Sitara]

i wonder what will become of tactical feats? They are all kinds of awesome and I had hope they would become a part of core rules in 4e. Seriously, you will get even fewer power slots than feats, if all the cool feats become powers, you end up with the same problem of 3e (too few slots, too many cool powers)