D&D (2024) I am highly skeptical of the Unreal VTT

[Hussar]

They are going to sell so many electronic minis and maps...

My experience is a lot like yours. I use VTT's almost exclusively these days and I don't even like putting up a combat grid (theater of the mind baybee!). I'm thinking the potential market there is just too lucrative to let go entirely, though. If you get folks to pay $1 per mini or $5 for a dungeon room...

If this is such a great idea, why does no one do it?

There’s both Roll20 and Fantasy Grounds. Between the two there’s more than a hundred thousand users.

But zero micro transactions like this.

Why is there this thought that WotC will suddenly do something that no one else does?

 

[Reynard]

If this is such a great idea, why does no one do it?

There’s both Roll20 and Fantasy Grounds. Between the two there’s more than a hundred thousand users.

But zero micro transactions like this.

Why is there this thought that WotC will suddenly do something that no one else does?

What do you mean? There are huge amounts of token and map packs for sale for those platforms. Why wouldn't WotC's VTT also sell tokens and maps?

 

[Thunder Brother]

If Magic Arena is anything to go by, I wouldn't be surpised if this VTT has extensive cosmetic microtransactions.

"Give your character elven plate armor for only $1.99. Blue Trolls for $0.99. Orc cosmetic set for $4.99."

Some will be fine with this. Others will see it as nickel and diming in a normally low-cost hobby.

 

[Reynard]

If Magic Arena is anything to go by, I wouldn't be surpised if this VTT has extensive cosmetic microtransactions.

"Give your character elven plate armor for only $1.99. Blue Trolls for $0.99. Orc cosmetic set for $4.99."

Some will be fine with this. Others will see it as nickel and diming in a normally low-cost hobby.

This is another element of visually strong (2D or 3D) VTTs I have noticed some folks get frustrated with: the higher the visual fidelity, the harder it can be to make your character (or monster or adventure location or whatever) appear like the one in your head and the less you can rely on other players using their minds eye. This isn't really a new problem. People have been seeking just the right mini and struggling with building perfect terrain since the inception of the hobby, but I think graphic intensive VTTs exacerbate the problem.

 

[UngainlyTitan]

My thoughts on this have varied a lot since the announcement, but it does look lovely.
However, 3d model/map creation is hard and not for the casual DM. I create maps for FantasyGrounds using Dungeondraft and Wonderdraft and they are easy to use. I do not use the native FGU map creation tools because it has a massive learning curve and I have not found a series of bite sized tutorials (10 to 15 minutes or so) to take me through the process.

They (WoTC) appear to be taking about assets as tilesets. This would make easier but tilesets are always a compromise between the map in your head and what the tiles you own can manage. Worse than that, the more tilesets you own then tileset management becomes an issue.
This will be worse with a 3rd dimension.

I think that they are going 3d because they have an eye on the AR/VR market down the line. I really like the prospect of AR in face to face play or over the wire in the future.

I could see them offering the VTT cheap or even free as a loss leader but I could easily see it as microtransaction central.

Questions I have;
Is it D&D only?
Is it tightly integrated with D&DBeyond or could you roll up with you books beside you, manually enter your character sheet and play as if at a real table?
Homebrewing and modding?
Is it scriptable?

 

[Hussar]

What do you mean? There are huge amounts of token and map packs for sale for those platforms. Why wouldn't WotC's VTT also sell tokens and maps?

Those aren’t micro transactions though are they? Selling several hundred tokens or a bundle of maps, that you absolutely do not need in order to use the VTT isn’t a micro transaction. It’s just selling stuff.

I’m sure that the WotC VTT will sell stuff too. But, again, I doubt you’ll be paying five bucks for a single mini skin or paying for access to a single spell.

 

[Jfdlsjfd]

This is another element of visually strong (2D or 3D) VTTs I have noticed some folks get frustrated with: the higher the visual fidelity, the harder it can be to make your character (or monster or adventure location or whatever) appear like the one in your head and the less you can rely on other players using their minds eye. This isn't really a new problem. People have been seeking just the right mini and struggling with building perfect terrain since the inception of the hobby, but I think graphic intensive VTTs exacerbate the problem.

I agree with you, and I feel they put the bar very high in the video, where one person say she liked to read fantasy but had trouble imagining a hero that would look like her. While I am quite puzzled by this need (when playing barbarians, I imagine them Musclor-looking even if I have more in common with Prince Adam...), it seems to be quite common. This means a lot of customization to reflect real-life people appearance in game. More than what Hereforge is making possible as far as I know.

Side note, and probably tongue-in-cheek (I hope). I can see them selling custom packs. Video games often sells "supporter edition" when you get a few extras like a skin for your character... why not in One? Where it is starting to be worrying is if they link it to actual in-game content. "You can buy magical items from the list in the PHB. If buy our "Elminster's Guide to Savvy Purchases" you'lle get 300 new magical items, slightly more powerful than those in the PHB. And then a list of 50 gold magical items and 10 platinum and... MICROTRANSACTIONS FTW!

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Not skeptical that it will come out, but skeptical that it is a good way to play D&D. I honestly believe that the fancier the VTT, the more it detracts from anything not combat, and makes it harder to run things on the fly or even homebrew prepped.

Thoughts?

I think WotC's track record suggests that they don't spend the kind of money necessary to make this succeed.

The fact that existing VTTs all have a pretty steep learning curve suggests this is hard to get right as a truly mass market product.

I think 2D tokens would be a lot easier to get off the ground as an initial product -- they could buy or recreate Owlbear Rodeo today and have the data save to a D&D Beyond account and be off and running almost immediately -- but by going with maximum bells and whistles, that's a lot more they have to get right, across a wide variety of devices.

The upside for getting this right is very, very high, but I think there are a lot of reasons to be skeptical that WotC can pull it off.

 

[UngainlyTitan]

I think WotC's track record suggests that they don't spend the kind of money necessary to make this succeed.

The fact that existing VTTs all have a pretty steep learning curve suggests this is hard to get right as a truly mass market product.

I think 2D tokens would be a lot easier to get off the ground as an initial product -- they could buy or recreate Owlbear Rodeo today and have the data save to a D&D Beyond account and be off and running almost immediately -- but by going with maximum bells and whistles, that's a lot more they have to get right, across a wide variety of devices.

The upside for getting this right is very, very high, but I think there are a lot of reasons to be skeptical that WotC can pull it off.

Hasbro own several game development studios. Some may even be subsidiaries of WoTC. This is pre-Alpha which means at least 3 years out.

 

[payn]

I think WotC's track record suggests that they don't spend the kind of money necessary to make this succeed.

The fact that existing VTTs all have a pretty steep learning curve suggests this is hard to get right as a truly mass market product.

I think 2D tokens would be a lot easier to get off the ground as an initial product -- they could buy or recreate Owlbear Rodeo today and have the data save to a D&D Beyond account and be off and running almost immediately -- but by going with maximum bells and whistles, that's a lot more they have to get right, across a wide variety of devices.

The upside for getting this right is very, very high, but I think there are a lot of reasons to be skeptical that WotC can pull it off.

Bigger the risk, the bigger the reward. I am glad they didn't just buy up a cheap option and are trying to aim for the next gen. I guess the question is if this is a different WOTC than the one last time. Though, the whole Baldur's Gate Dark Alliance didnt work out too good so...