D&D (2024) I am highly skeptical of the Unreal VTT

[MonsterEnvy]

Ok. So maybe you won't have to pay to customize your character's appearances, but where are all the assets going to come from? Programmers will need to be paid to render 3D models and to provide options. Just like D&D Beyond has charged for collectible virtual dice skins. And that's fair if people want to pay for that - but it's just a microtransaction for a skin that doesn't really matter to the game. Just like getting a pink bunny suit in a shooting video game.
What I'm more concerned about is if it ties in gameable content behind individual paywalls (which seemed to be hinted at with the physical collectible miniature being shown IRL and also on the game screen. I infer that to say: "Well, you buy a miniature for your in-person game, why not buy the physical token so you can use a black dragon in your VTT game?"
I can easily see this being a new revenue stream.

That's fair.
I imagine the system will be behind a Subscription, so that will pay the programmers.

 

[Hussar]

Here's what I don't like about it.

• Many players are already invested in a VTT. That investment will be made worthless in a couple years - or you can't play the current edition.

You mean I get to stop using the piece of outdated crap that is Fantasy Grounds? FANTASTIC.

• You're going to be paying to customize your token (a la HeroForge). We can currently just pull images from the Internet, make our own, or even use generic tokens. I'll bet that's not possible in this 3d environment.

Yeah, this was the exact same thing that was said back when the 4e VTT was announced and it wasn't true then. Do you really, honestly, truly, in your heart of hearts, think that WotC will be that monumentally stupid?

• My current setup has some lag when a teenager is playing online games, my wife is streaming HBO, and I'm running a game on voice chat and a VTT. This stuff isn't going to work, and I'll bet it's going to require a high end PC to do what you're seeing in the preview.

Currently using Fantasy Grounds, I cannot use an image greater than 100k because it hangs for one or more of my players. Chosen randomly, week by week. Yeah, I'm going to think that that WotC can't do much worse than that.

• We've been burnt before (Gleemax?) I don't believe WotC can even pull this off.

Why? The 4e VTT was fantastic and far, far better than anything else on the market at the time. It just came too late.

• Purchasing piecemeal monsters and other components from their adventures means DMs will have to "unlock" creatures to be able to use them in homebrew. (It's like Pokemon Go or something.)

Again, why would you think that WotC is that monumentally bad at business? When have they shown this sort of thing at all?

• It's tied in with D&D Beyond. And I don't use D&D Beyond.
• 3PP will be screwed unless they can keep up with the programming and have access to use the proprietary system.

If this turns out to be a subscription-based suite of microtransactions like I'm reading, they can keep it.

I think you're reading FAR more into what your reading than what they are saying.

 

[wedgeski]

That VTT looked gorgeous. I think a few things are easy/fun to predict:

• The VTT will be intrinsically tied to DNDB and require a subscription.
• The top-level DM tier subscription will permit you to share a VTT and its content with a group, much like you can now with DNDB content.
• Wizards will tie VTT adventures into their published output. Less clear is whether all new adventures will have a fully modelled, fully art-appropriate VTT implementation. This seems like a massive extra investment on any new adventure material.
• There will be a VTT asset store, you will be able to buy digital figurines of just about everything in the game.
• You will be able to push those figurines to online printers like Hero Forge, this will become the new marketplace for D&D mini's: buy the digital asset, get it printed. I doubt you'll get an STL, but boy would that be nice.
• You will be able to import digital models you've designed from online printers like HeroForge.
• Hasbro may just outright buy HeroForge! Their tools are amazing and the results are...pretty good, and likely to get better with time.
• You'll be free to build custom scenarios from any assets you've bought as part of the adventure bundles or from the store.
• There will be a marketplace for user-generated VTT scenarios.

It's unclear to me whether Wizards will open the VTT to user-generated models, but I seriously doubt it.

 

[deganawida]

Not skeptical that it will come out, but skeptical that it is a good way to play D&D. I honestly believe that the fancier the VTT, the more it detracts from anything not combat, and makes it harder to run things on the fly or even homebrew prepped.

Thoughts?

Right there with you. 20 years ago? I’d have thought it was the greatest thing since toilet paper. Now? I don’t know that it could ever possibly match my creativity or that of my players. Further, it feels like a major step in homogenization of play so that tournament play will become far more common, bringing in more monetization for WotC.

I am looking at this whole announcement, and the VTT in particular, with a very jaded eye. I might be doing so unfairly, but it’s how I feel about it currently.

 

[Art Waring]

Now? I don’t know that it could ever possibly match my creativity or that of my players. Further, it feels like a major step in homogenization of play so that tournament play will become far more common, bringing in more monetization for WotC.

I am looking at this whole announcement, and the VTT in particular, with a very jaded eye. I might be doing so unfairly, but it’s how I feel about it currently.

I think people have a right to feel jaded, or at the least concerned, about these new developments.

Looking at MtG, they have both a VTT version and a paper version, and they both kind of coexist without conflicting. I think that pen and paper games will go on an usual. For those that want to use DnD Beyond, its there for them.

I personally don't use Beyond, and I don't particularly like the overtly corporate feel of this new VTT, but I am still free to pursue my own avenues of play.

My larger concern would be if the VTT pushes players towards it with things exclusive to the VTT, forcing DM's to move over to the platform out of player demand.

Now hypothetical scenario: Years from now, theoretically they could publish an entirely digital version of the game, forcing you to subscribe to their service just to play. This could be a preliminary test run to see how well it works.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

There will be a VTT asset store, you will be able to buy digital figurines of just about everything in the game.

Honestly if they try and double/triple-dip me by making me pay for the VTT and pay for the figures of monsters I "own" by owning the books, WotC can absolutely go DIAF. That'd be the end of me giving them any money for anything ever again. I'd drop them like I dropped Games Workshop when they started overcharging and doing army list changes solely aimed at forcing people to rebuy large parts of their armies because the old ones were no longer legal. That's pure scummy MTX bollocks and if I wanted to be involved with that, I could play any number of horrible MTX-centric MMORPGs or whatever and be ripped off by them.

Also we can guarantee any such models wouldn't fit with the vision of an awful lot of groups, and indeed not being forced to have a specific corporate-approved vision of things is one of the great joys of TT RPGs, and what separates them from MMORPGs and the like.

You will be able to import digital models you've designed from online printers like HeroForge.

That will definitely 100% not happen unless WotC owns them, or they're actively in some partnership with WotC (and I do not believe WotC would enter into such).

There is no possibility WotC will be letting you bring in stuff from third-parties and risking someone being surprised by your cleverly designed Penis-Hydra, or whatever. Which let's be clear people would be figure out how to make 0.5 seconds after any ability to import digital models was announced.

 

[wedgeski]

Honestly if they try and double/triple-dip me by making me pay for the VTT and pay for the figures of monsters I "own" by owning the books, WotC can absolutely go DIAF. That'd be the end of me giving them any money for anything ever again. I'd drop them like I dropped Games Workshop when they started overcharging and doing army list changes solely aimed at forcing people to rebuy large parts of their armies because the old ones were no longer legal. That's pure scummy MTX bollocks and if I wanted to be involved with that, I could play any number of horrible MTX-centric MMORPGs or whatever and be ripped off by them.

You may as well pack your bags Ruin, because it will happen. Unless Wizards dramatically change their stance on the value proposition between published and digital material, the VTT will be an entirely separate marketplace, much like DNDB is (for the most part) now.

That will definitely 100% not happen unless WotC owns them, or they're actively in some partnership with WotC (and I do not believe WotC would enter into such).

Hence my subsequent prediction that HeroForge will be acquired. I see no reason at all for Wizards to code their own character creator when HF have done such a good job.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

You may as well pack your bags Ruin, because it will happen. Unless Wizards dramatically change their stance on the value proposition between published and digital material, the VTT will be an entirely separate marketplace, much like DNDB is (for the most part) now.

Oh I'm absolutely ready to, and I will if they do. A lot of it will come down to the actual pricing model, but if they want to nickel-and-dime me on that basis, well, plenty of other RPGs out there, and you can sure as hell bet Paizo and others will be upping their digital game in response to this. I genuinely loathe companies who nickel-and-dime.

Re: Heroforge I personally disagree, and I think players will be pretty disappointed with how bad their digital PCs look next to even older MMORPG characters. I think it made sense when they were limited by "what can be 3D printed", but if the goal is for a digital VTT they could do so much better.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Those are exactly the concerns I have heard. We had someone outright say "I'm sick of change"

my concern is price and possibly vaporware that could push out existing vtt

 

[Bill Zebub]

I want my VTT to work like the holo-chess table on the Millennium Falcon.