I am really unlucky (or Enworld martial artists help me part 2)...

Mega thanx for all of the replies!!!

Did even some more research, and.....the Judo dojo is too far away from my house so that is out....

But, suddenly I found a Jeet Kune Do school near me.....so that too is an option...

So it's down to:

1. Hwa Rang Do
2. Jeet Kune Do
3. Goju-ryu Karate
4. Muay Thai

Drakmar: Why do you think Hwa Rang Do would be the best??? I heard very few things about the style so could you give me some insight...

ThomasBJJ: You're right Muay Thai can be damaging to the body...so I will try to avoid that route if possible....
 

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Drakmar, I wasnt knocking any of those styles...most martial arts around today are modern arts, and actually were never designed for real "combat" especially any art with a "DO" on the end of the name. The truly effective aspects for street use were neutered out of them early on. Yes it is possible to train hard and put them back in or bring them out, but it is more trouble than it is worth. one because it is easier just to get an art which martial effectiveness is already designed in, and two even if you succeed you are going to be less effecient and effective than if you had just trained in the more combative art to begin with. I have multiple years experience with Jujutsu and with MuayThai boxing, and I train very seriously:I can tell you now they are not arts for the street. I dont care what you see on the UFC.....that is not real fighting, and that is not how things are gonna go down in real life. I am not trying to be condescending , but I am speaking from experience. I have now been studying Bujinkan Ninpo , an art designed for maximum combat effectiveness, the moves arent pretty . There arent any forms or kata, it is all about adaptation and maximum damage effectiveness and efficiency. I have fought on the street, and been hurt. I considered myself a very effective street fighter using my thai boxing and jujutsu , but in reality I was not. I found out the hard way......luckily not by someone on the street that would kill me but from my instructor now , who beat the snot out of me in his dojo when I first met him and challenged him . I love all martial arts, but I love each one for what it is. Do not try to make an art do what it isnt for; many martial arts today just arent that martial anymore.
 

LGGodamus: I would gladly check out Bujinkan Ninpo....but I am afraid there is not a single dojo here in Poland.....too bad for me, huh?
 

ZdanBoy , I am not saying only ninpo is street effective. What I am getting at is that you want an art actually grounded in combat, and of the chinese arts Hung gar is about the only one truly effective. As far as Japanese, go for the KoRyu old schools, there are only a few though. poland seems to be deficient in Bujinkan schools, but often Bujinkan schools are small training groups that do not advertise much, but if you ever get the chance you should really check it out. I am sorry to hear of your troubles. I hate to see anyone on the warriors path stuble over hardships. Stick with it though, and good luck.
 

LGodamus: First sorry for mispeliing your name...guess my English is not that great, eh???

Second, thanks for the warm words. We truly miss our sifu....he was a magnificent teacher....we even went to other martial arts schools to spar and cross-train....

Third.....regarding MA....i knew that Hung Gar was one of the most effective kung fu styles.....that is why I chose it in the first place.....but the only sifu I liked and was good is now gone....

But I plan to continue training...I just do not know in which MA....you said old KoRyu schools.....sorry for being a newbie....what are old KoRyu schools.....it rings a bell but I do not know where.....

Also...I'm not asking for anything, but maybe your Ninpo teacher has contacts with someone who knows some Ninpo schools in Poland that are in Warsaw, the capital...

Anyways thanks for your posts....
 

Regarding Jeet Kune Do, there are usually two kinds of JKD schools; Jun Fan/JKD & JKD Concept schools.

Jun Fan kwoons tends towards teaching the style as Bruce Lee practiced it, with similar techniques and combinations. Lee was a great proponent for practical martial arts. Much of what you see on screen is choreogrpahed for film and not how he actually fought/trained (though certainly based upon his style).

JKD Concepts kwoons usually teach Wing Chun/Escrima/Muay Thai and JKD Concepts, IME. The idea being that Lee's philosophy of "absorb what is useful" be applied by giving the student a grounding in several styles and techniques, then help him put it together into his own cohesive style.

This approach has its detractors. They say that a student should focus on one style and -when sufficiently advanced- "customize" it to their own strengths & weaknesses. A JKD Concepts practitioner, they say, lacks integration and their "personal style" won't stand up to a unified style. JKD Concepts proponents counter that not everyone is built or moves like Bruce Lee, and his techniques aren't right for everyone.

I had a friend in college who was a disciple under Francis Fong. Fong teaches JKD Concepts in the Atlanta area and is considered by many to be one the top sifus in the style (and the country). My money would have been on my friend in a street fight any day of the week.

The lesson here? I don't know, honestly. I think it's the instructor and whether the style speaks to you more than anything else.


PS - If there are any JKD students/instructors out there, please correct me if I have my information wrong. It's been a while since I was active in the Martial Arts and my memory is far from perfect.
 

A couple general points:

Being "street effective" is not a matter so much of the *type* of martial art, but how they teach it to you. There are two things you really need to be effective in a crisis:

1) You cannot need to think about what your doing. If you still think of what your doing along the lines of "Ok, teach said to do this for this... So third form punch...", your not there. Until your at the point where, if a punch is thrown at you suddenly, you react without thinking about it with the correct counter, you're not ready. I don't know about your dojos, and it sounds like you have a good instructor there, but around here, I would compare my abilities in a crisis favorable with students of a lot of dojos that are ranked far higher than I... Simply because, when I watch them, it doesn't seem like it's instinctive... The dojo is teaching them *what* to do, but not making them learn to *actualy do it*, if you follow.

So if you find a dojo that, like you said, makes you practice the same basic strike, block, or counter over, and over, and over, and over... You have a 50-50 chance of having found a good one. The other possibility is a lazy instructor. :D

2) Adaptability. This ties somewhat into 1, and it's something a friend I know expressed to me much better than I had figured out for myself. Not only must your style teach you to do things instinctivly, but you have to it has to teach you how to use it outside of perfect sparring conditions. Because you won't find those in a real fight.

Further, I would stay away from any dojo that seems to teach flashy stuff... Flashy stuff isn't what you need. And if your dojo doesn't teach it, but you actualy think you might need to defend yourself, find a way to learn a form of weapons combat... Either knife-fighting, or one of the styles that teaches you to use *anything* as a weapon. Myself, I've taught me those things... Couldn't find anyplace to learn knife fighting or similar. And my primary martial art is kenjitsu, which might seem useless (how often am I gonna have a sword), but once you realize that a lot of things can be a "sword", it starts to become more useful. Not that I'd really want that in combat, though... That's what the other stuff is for.
 

LGodamus: That's cool, I didn't think you were knocking the styles. I have noticed that there are two major views..

1) A particular style is more effective than all other styles and is the most effective in street fights

2) that it doesn't really matter what style... it all depends on the instructor, and how hard and long you train.

I tend to follow the 2nd view-point.. but I do agree with parts of the first statement.. I did 5 years of Tae Kwon Do.. I did learn a lot from that.. but not how to street fight. I did 1 year of Wing Chun.. learnt a lot from that.. but not how to street fight.

in the 1 1/2 years of Hung Gar I have done.. I have learnt a lot more things that I would consider useful in a street fight. And that is mainly because I have a good sifu, and the style itself does lend itself to a more traditional style of training (ie less McFu)

I agree with what Tysr is saying as well.

to me being an effective street fight is a combination of conditioning, reflex, and mindset. And the first two are useless without the third.

And why did I pick Hwa Rang Do from the list? Well.. bias. .I don't like Muay Thai (I am not knocking it.. I just don't like it), Judo is not strikes... and Goju-ryu Karate is Japanese..(I will explain that in a tic). That's why I linked a site.. that can give you some background into it.. I personally know nothing about Hwa Rang Do.

I have also noticed a difference in the way MAs are taught. As in.. in a Chinese based art, a Japanese based art, Korean etc...

I have trained various ones (Chi,Jap,Kor).. and I personally prefer the Chinese schools.. I have found that they tend to be "happier" places.. (I would explain it better if I could).. Where as my sister really likes the Japanese mindset of classes (aikido).

well.. that's my ramblings for tonight.
 

Drakmar said:
LGodamus: That's cool, I didn't think you were knocking the styles. I have noticed that there are two major views..

1) A particular style is more effective than all other styles and is the most effective in street fights

2) that it doesn't really matter what style... it all depends on the instructor, and how hard and long you train.

I would add something to your second statement, Drak, and this, I think applies to any martial arts school.

Your instructor and your dedication is very important. But you should also never forget that a huge part of the "effectiveness" of any martial art in a life-or-death situation is mental.

All martial arts are combat effective. They wouldn't have been invented in the first place, or survived this long, if they weren't. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise. The various teaching styles out there mean that you will have to take your instructor's approach into consideration when you do your own practicing. I study Tae Kwon Do and Hapkido, both of which are darn useful in combat if you are willing to inflict serious harm upon someone.

For example, if your instructor believes in a very traditional class that is focused on forms practice and technique repetition, ask him what a particular move in a form is for. They all do something nasty and unpleasant. Trust me on this. A move may look flowery and sort of pointless, but it's likely something that inflicts a lot of pain on someone.

Real-life example: My dad studies Tai Chi. He leared it from his dad, and so on. Standard asian cliche. All those slow-motion, graceful techniques are actually strike defenses, joint manipulation techniques, and finishing moves generally involving throat strikes. I don't study Tai Chi, but I understand the point now. It's not just slow-motion exercises for old people.

So here's my point for you. Study the schools. Yeah, if you're looking for self-defense, competition-oriented styles like Muay Thai and Judo will probably not do it for you, but one thing they will do is improve your conditioning and reflexes. And as a matter of self-defense, remember that 99% of the world's population does not study personal combat. If you hit them real hard, they will probably go down.

The JKD school might be nice for you. Try it out and see if the teacher's approach works for you. Same with the others. The name of the style is largely irrelevant. I've experimented with a variety of martial arts, both eastern and western, and while training approaches may differ, many of the techniques are quite similar. When it boils down to it, a punch is a punch. You can punch with your fist vertical like Isshinryu Karate guys, you can twist it like Tae Kwon Do guys, or you can use the heel of your hand or whatever. It really doesn't matter as long as you train yourself to throw it with the proper distance, timing, and force to make it hurt. The human body only moves in so many ways.

So as a practical matter, here are some things to consider that I find to be much more important than the name of the style or the sales pitch that the instructor gives you that will really tell you whether or not you are interested in the school.

1. What's their policy on "trying it out?" Can you come in and watch a few classes? How about taking one for free to see what it's like? If the answer is no, walk out. Any instructor who wants to lock you into a deal without letting you try out his product isn't looking out for your best interests.

2. How do they bill you? Does the instructor insist on long-term contracts? If he does, you might want to look elsewhere. This goes along with the first statement. On the other hand, a variety of billing structures suggest that he's flexible and understanding of your needs and is willing to work with what you can manage.

3. What are his facilities like? What kind of equipment does he have? How you train yourself is ultimately at least as important as how your instructor trains you. My school has a big space with heavy bags, hand weights, and other fitness gear and it lets paying students come in and work out any time during business hours (which is 10-10, M-S in my case) as part of the school membership. That's a great deal.

4. How does the instructor teach? Can you work with him? Does he take time to answer questions about techniques? Do his classes give you what you are looking for? If you can't get along with him, then you won't learn, no matter how good he is.

5. How does the instructor handle advancement? Is it even an issue? I know some aikido schools have two belts: white and black. Does the instructor speed people along to tests or is he willing to tell someone that they aren't ready for the next upcoming advancement test? This will show you something about his goals. Every instructor need to make money, but there is a balance between the business and the teaching.

These are all things you should be able to learn by talking to the instructor and some of the students in the class. Do your homework and see what fits your needs. The label the school gives itself is much, much less important than the substance of what it teaches.
 

I feel I need to clear up a few points on what I have said. I didnt mean to sound as if I were saying Hwa rang do or goju ryu or whatever wouldnt work on the street. What I am trying to say is simply this......If you are buying a car to race it...you buy a sports car, and not a truck if you want it to be fast. its not that you cannot make a truck fast , but it takes more work and longer times than buying a sports car. Martial arts are the same way. Most martial arts just arent designed for true life or death confrontations. There is a misconception that many people hold, that all these martial arts are made for combat that is why they have survived for so long. I saw that view expressed in this thread. It is a misconception ,because 90% of the styles around arent old......most were designed after 1900 and definately not for life or death combat.....this is true for the arts ending in the suffix DO especially. Karatedo aikido hapkido these are all modern martial arts......they are based on older arts , but they are not the same. Many arts have been redesigned over the past 60 or so years as well. They have been adjusted to fit the needs of the populace. They have been made more aesthetic or competitive and as such moved away from their killing elements, this is mostly due to public opinion.

ZDANBOY: I will try to find you a bujinkan school to try out in poland .....it may take a few days ,but I will shoot an email to Ed Martin. If anyone will know about a dojo around there it is him, and I will also check with mat hjelm as he is in europe and may know more about schools there than I do. Also the word Koryu means old schools or old traditions and refers to martial ways that predate the edo period of japan....they are the samurai and Ninpo warrior traditions designed for combat use and have surivived nearly one thousand years of battlefield use......Bujinkan is a collective of 9 koryu ,but there are a few others as well.
 

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