I beseech your wisdom, ENWorld

[Rel]

I’ve got a bit of an issue (I think it fails to rise to the level of a “problem” at this point) and I would like some input. I’m going to give a considerable amount of background so that you can give an informed opinion. If you want, feel free to skip to the part below where I outline The Crux of the Issue.

Years ago, we had a gaming group of about 8 people. Most of us had been close friends and gaming together for years and things were ok in our group. But gradually over time, some frustrations began to creep in and some personality conflicts started to impinge on the fun we were having.

There were essentially three subsets of players in the group. Three people (we’ll call them “Character Focused”) were very interested in getting the chance to realize a character concept and personality they had in mind and didn’t particularly care what pace the story moved at so long as they felt like they were getting to display their character. Another threesome (including me; we’ll call us “Game Focused”) enjoyed playing interesting characters but were most interested in the game for the chance to participate in the storyline and enjoy the challenges laid before us. The third group consisted of two players (we’ll call them “Social Focused”) who were mainly there because they enjoyed getting to spend time with our group of friends. They were happy to be there, cracking jokes out of character and generally hanging out eating pizza.

Eventually, one player from the “Game Focused” group became frustrated and ceased playing with the group although continued to remain friends with everybody else. Not long after that, that campaign ended and we didn’t immediately restart anything new with that group. One of our two Social Focused players joined the Air Force and was effectively removed from the group although we still continue to see him socially on a fairly frequent basis.

Slowly over the next several months, the “Game Focused” group began to reconstitute a new group with just ourselves and the remaining Social player. We all played very well together and still remained friends with the other people even though we weren’t playing with them. Since they were people who we liked, we wanted them to be happy and start playing again in their own group where they could roleplay their little hearts out. But they didn’t.

A year or so went by and two of the “Character Focused” group approached me about running a game for the two of them (the third Character Focused player was one of their wives but she was too busy with school and work to play at that time). I agreed and for most of the next year I ran a game for the two of them and simultaneously played with the other group. When my campaign ended, we switched to 3E and I managed to get one of the Character Focused guys to DM for me and the husband/wife pair of other Character Focused people.

Then, my wife and I had a baby and I really needed to cut down on my gaming from two games a week to one. So I bowed out of the Character Focused group and continued playing with the other group who also switched to 3E with me as GM not long after that. Since then the Character Focused gang have also had babies and had little time for gaming (until recently) with the exception of a couple of one-shot games here and there. Which brings us to:

The Crux of the Issue

Now I am getting some pretty strong indications from the Character Focused group that they want to be part of a regular, long-term campaign. I’ve got several possible tacks I could take on this and I am trying to balance the two critical factors that are my long term friendships with the Character Focused group and my enjoyment of gaming (and that of my present gaming group).

I could simply tell them that I’m glad they want to start gaming regularly again but that our present group is in a good groove and we don’t want to mess with our mojo. I have tried to encourage them to “game among themselves” in the past but they seem reluctant to do so. It would also mean that their group would consist of just 2 players and a GM but this seems like it would facilitate their Character Focus quite well.

Or

I could initiate a new campaign that meets on a regular but less frequent basis (maybe once every two weeks to a month). This group would be open to anybody from either group who wants to participate.

Or

I am presently running a solo campaign for my wife which has been a lot of fun. I could see if she would mind if the “Character Focused” crowd were to join that game. We play this game on an irregular basis, usually on a weekend night but we could make it more regular if the other group wanted it that way.

Or

Some other option that I have not yet considered. One thing that is not on the table for consideration is just adding that group back into our normal “Game Focused” group. We have talked about this in the past and decided that we like having a small group for our regular game and wouldn’t want three more players even if we knew for certain they would fit in well. We wouldn’t mind one or maybe (very maybe) two more players, but the three Character Focused players are very close friends and come as a package deal.

Tell me what you think.

 

[Balgus]

well- I am sorry your group had to break up. but what can I say, when players disagree- it is hard to be in the middle...

now to the point. DMing is hard and time consuming in and of itself. Maybe if you asked one of your other playesr to DM, you can join the game as a player. That way- you can play in both games (or three if you consider your wife's)
Otherwise, I would just say do what you have time for- and enjoy. you can't do everything...

 

[Henry]

Tough quandries: Social issues are always tricky in a group as heterogenous as gamers.

Note that all my opinions are merely that - take them at your own risk (of course, you knew that).

First, before even THINKING about introducing the other three to your and your wife's private game, find out how she herself views both the private game, and your three friends as well. If she views this game time as a form of "togetherness time" for just the two of you (the same way some couples play tennis or do crafts together), then she may be slightly offended that you even bring it up. If you do, be sure she knows you haven't promised anything, only that you want her thoughts on the matter, and that you hold no stake except for what she wants best, because you value her opinion most.

Second, it may seem conceited to some, but if your current group is going very well, and all of you unanimously do not feel like inviting new players, THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THIS. Above all else, and many people forget this, D&D is a SOCIAL GATHERING. If you had, say, a football party, would you invite someone to it who has no particular interest in football, or who likes teams that you are totally opposed to? Although many feel that all gamers MUST be open to new players, or to all participants, I do not see the logic in this if the new players do not mesh well with your style of play.

If, on the other hand, your group is not particularly set against the "old players," then if you offer them a spot at the gaming table, I would warn them well ahead of time of your play style in this campaign, that things move pretty fast, and the existing players are used to responding to certain events quickly.

That said, if inviting the other players into your group, You may want to adjust your DMing style somewhat to give each player a little time to shine. After a particularly involving plot or breakneck pace adventure, offer a character-centered plot in town, or an NPC that one of your character focused players stands the only chance of successfully talking to. Then, if you have any combat-moguls in your group, come up with a vicious yet quick hack-fest to just let the players romp a bit and have some mindless fun. Mix it up so that each player is satisfied, even if only for a short while. The end result is that everyone gets to have fun, friends get to spend time together, and the harmony of your matrimony is preserved.

 

[BigFreekinGoblinoid]

Hi Rel!

As problems go, it seems your is a good one

I'm not sure what you are looking for in terms of feedback from the board, but I'll offer some thoughts:

If I had a good thing going with my wife in a "solo" campaign, I'd think long and hard about changing that. She probably really enjoys this ( and may only be doing it for ) bonding time with you.
I'd ask her her opinion on adding people to this group, but if you get anything less than a resounding and enthusiastic "Yes!", than I'd just forget it... "Nah honey - just an idea.. forget it. I really enjoy it being just you and I"

If you choose to DM another campaign, make sure you do have the time for it, otherwise it might seem like a chore, and won't be as enjoyable for anyone. DM's should be excited about a new campaign! It sounds like you aren't.

My only other advice: I'd put the onus of change on the "character" based players who don't have a game now to convince the existing "game" focused players to let them join. Your stance can be nuetral. If they can't work out an arrangement, then hey - you did your part by initiating the dialogue.

 

[Desdichado]

Interesting problem! And coincidentally, one I've given some thought to myself. If you'll indulge me, I'll explain my situation and some thoughts I've had towards a possible solution. I've been giving some thought to our current game group -- four couples makes for quite a large group, and for the most part, I think our styles and tastes are fairly close. However, there are two people in our group who I think have different tastes. Due to the nature of our group, we couldn't possibly entertain breaking the group up along the taste line, unless two divorces that I don't see happening come from nowhere.

My own wife I still consider to be somewhat "fragile" as a gamer -- she very recently started and is still trying to decide how much she likes it. I'm concerned that playing with folks who don't share her tastes (my wife joins me with the majority which in terms of taste) will discourage her from continuing the hobby. She has expressed at one point frustration to me because of the way two other players in the group handled an issue that recently came up in game. At the same time, I can't really do much about it, because the entire group of us are friends and we really need to game together, or find completely different groups. That option won't really help my wife either, because if we weren't gaming with friends, she wouldn't be interested in doing it at all, at least at this point.

So, I agree -- maybe more an issue for thought than a problem per se, but definately something to think about. I don't know that there's necessarily a solution, other than making an attempt to be tolerant and juggle elements of the game so that everybody gets to occasionally play the way they want to. And maybe that is the solution too: my wife and I discussed the possibility of having our two characters split off from the main group and engaging in some research on our own for a little while so we can do things the way we want to. Two other characters are currently doing this, and maybe that's a good way to let the others who would rather play in a way that frustrates the rest of us continue to do so without stepping on our toes. After all, I really can't (or won't, anyway) entertain the possibility of breaking up the group, as we are all friends, and since we are all married to other players in the group, there's not a good way to split us off even if we did want to do that. But everyone has to have fun if gaming is to continue, and when the style of a few players starts to frustrate some of the others, the game needs to be able to account for that and allow everyone to do their thing part of the time.

 

[der_kluge]

Since you have a family now, I would avoid running so many games. I would opt for 1 game every other week (which is the way we play) and invite everyone that wants to play in it. It seems as if everyone got along before (minus the one that decided to leave) so there's no reason to assume that there would be any problems the second time around (unless the same person that left the first time is coming back).

Above all - talk openly to all parties involved to ensure that everyone gets out of it what they want. I would also imagine that your wife plays because she enjoys spending time with you, which she will continue to do if you game with others as well. My wife enjoys being with other people, but doesn't care for gaming so much. It sounds like yours actually likes to game, though.

 

[Nightfall]

I'd say wait until you can make a committment. If they want to game badly enough, they are plenty of others out there I'm sure that can fill in for a DM's role.

 

[pogre]

As a DM with young children myself I can appreciate your situation.

I agree with those who have suggested sticking to your one-on-one game with your wife. That's pretty neat - so don't screw it up.

You placed yourself in the game-focused group. I am in that camp as well BTW. That is your gaming style, it's what you mostly enjoy. With your limited time you need to say, "Look, things are going well in my group and I really cannot add any players at this time."

So I guess I vote for option one. Your leisure time is too valuable to not play the way you want.

I could simply tell them that I’m glad they want to start gaming regularly again but that our present group is in a good groove and we don’t want to mess with our mojo. I have tried to encourage them to “game among themselves” in the past but they seem reluctant to do so. It would also mean that their group would consist of just 2 players and a GM but this seems like it would facilitate their Character Focus quite well.

 

[Mistwell]

I also suggest you go with option one. Two games while married and with children is too much (not counting the one with your wife). Heck, two games while married and WITHOUT children is too much in my opinion.

 

[Rel]

Thanks for all the answers, gang. I really appreciate it.

Tonight we discussed the issue among our current group and surprisingly we came up with a couple of possible solutions. Before I get into that, I should mention that I am not currently the DM of my main game group and don't plan to be for quite a while. We tend to rotate GMing duties and my turn won't be up again for some time. That is fine by me because I'm meeting all my control freak needs with running the game for my wife (which, as many of you suggest, I'm not going to mess with).

One idea that we might try is for me to run a very occasional (around once a month) game using RttToEE. That would free me from having to do a lot of planning. I wouldn't mind running such a meat grinder adventure with a large group and we are talking about possibly having a few of the other wives/girlfriends join in too. This would also solve the Character Focus/Game Focus dichotomy because it would be stated right up front that the focus would be a combat heavy dungeon crawl.

The other solution is that it was mentioned that, of the people in our present game group, all of whom have GMed for the Character Focus crowd, our present GM (who was the remaining Social Focus guy I mentioned above) probably meshes better with them than any of the rest of us. So he offered the idea of running a city based game, based around the Thieves World idea, for the other group after our current campaign is over. He is not married and has no children and would have the time necessary to run their campaign and play with the regular group at the same time. Plus the Thieves World thing is a sort of pet project that he has had in mind for some time. From past experience with the Character Focus group, I think they will jump at the chance. Of the three of them, one always wants to play assassin types, one likes brooding dark mages and the third loves to play crooked merchants and thieves. It's a match made in heaven.

In the mean time until that starts up, I may or may not run the RttToEE game. We'll see.

So, for now at least, it seems our issues are being cleared up before they turn into problems. Thanks again for your thoughts on the matter.