D&D 4E I bought GURPS 4e!!!! (and returned it the next day)

[VirgilCaine]

Ergo, it's an apples and organges comparison, and, IMHO, no different from comparing it to other RPGs which are specifically designed to do one thing, e.g., Call of Cthulhu.

THANK YOU! Just what I had wanted to say.

 

[buzz]

Not quite true. A multitude of settings, yes that is *exactly* why WotC adopted the d20 model. A multitude of genres, no.

A semantic gaffe on my part, but I think I still made my point.

Even so, we still see customization from setting to setting, FWIW.

 

[Sir Elton]

OF course, both GURPS and Ad20 are really the things to compare. Ad20 handles all genres of Anime, and GURPS was developed to handle all Genres. So, if anything, those can be directly compared with.

 

[Malin Genie]

Before I go off and order my copies - what exactly is the 'binding problem'? Is it affecting all copies or just a particular run?

 

[glass]

<blink blink> You're absolutely right Jürgen, I forgot that M&M indeed doesn't use the d20 license. In which case I admit defeat .

Except that if you take d20 to mean only those products that use the d20 STL, that excludes D&D and d20 Modern as well! I think most people would agree they should be included in what d20 is.


glass.

 

[glass]

Yeah, but those TV/movie barroom brawls almost always end with the hero(es) walking away from their unconscious foes. I'm not sure d20 Modern would allow a fistfight to end with anyone unconscious . . .

Except that, as Henry pointed out in the post you quoted, that is exactly what happens in the RAW.

glass.

 

[Arnwyn]

d20 was never intended to work wth a multitude of settings. This is a common misconception. It has been adapted to many settings because of i's massive popularity. WotC never marketed d20 as a generic system nor claimed it could do any genre out of the box. That it has been used for many different genres by many different companies...

...including WotC themselves ("d20 Modern"). [And I think you mean "genre", not "setting", as someone else pointed out.]

Based on the results of d20 Modern, it is quite clear that d20 was never intended to work with a multitude of settings, and was only adapted to fit.

(Of course, as soon as WotC themselves released d20 Modern, one could argue that indeed, WotC did "market d20 as a generic system and claim it could do any genre out of the box"... if only through an implication.)

 

[Hunter Simon]

Before I go off and order my copies - what exactly is the 'binding problem'?

GURPS 4e is poorly bound (cheap glue job rather than thread is what I understand, but I know nothing about the mechanics of binding books). The pages fall out within days of use.

Is it affecting all copies or just a particular run?

People from all over the place have had their GURPS 4e books fall apart, so it's hard to say. Certainly not *all* the copies...but I have to wonder how many have decided to simply "grin and bear it." Some of the GURPSheads on RPG.net have said, "So what if it falls apart? It's still a great game! When it falls apart I'll simply put the pages in a binder. Problem solved!"

Whatever.

 

[Hunter Simon]

Based on the results of d20 Modern, it is quite clear that d20 was never intended to work with a multitude of settings, and was only adapted to fit.

What's *that* supposed to mean? Some of us think d20 Modern is a great game.

 

[Hunter Simon]

Common problem?
I guess I'm *VERY* lucky, then.
I have a big collection of GURPS books (50+ books) and I never experienced a problem with the binding. It looks like they sold all the crappy copies to rpg.net people...

He wasn't talking about old GURPS books. He was talking about GURPS 4e. Thus, your 50+ books have nothing at all to do with the discussion.

Mistakes happen, anyway. I know for a fact (and directly for the horse mouth: Andrew Hackard, GURPS line editior) that if your newly purchased book has *any* problem (missing pages, crappy binding, whatever), you can contact sjgames and ask for a substitution. send them your crappy copy, and you will get a new book.
Ah, if only people tried to do something before complaining...

People aren't complaining that SJ Games wont' replace the books. People are complaining that they *fell apart in the first place*. Your comment, once again, has nothing to do with the discussion at hand.