I do / don't like George R.R. Martin's Song of Ice & Fire series

[King_Stannis]

I am rereading the series now, and if it's possible, I'm enjoying them even better the second time around. Although I find myself getting sick in the stomach as I approach the part of the book where

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Ned is imprisoned in the dungeons below the red keep. I am warming up my arm for the first *official* book toss of the second reading of the series

Seriously, though, I know it might not be for everyone - but Martin's writing skill is just eons ahead of some of these hacks writing fantasy nowadays. The story so far is simply wonderful, and I hope it doesn't run out of steam. I, too, am worried about a Jordan-type milking, but doubt it's going to happen. Martin grudgingly wrote this current book as the "extra", as it was going to be told via flashback in "A Dance With Dragons". He came to the conclusion that too much was going on in the 5 years he intended to skip, so to avoid confusion, he gave the period its own book (A Feast for Crows). You can at least tell that Martin has a plan to end this thing, and that's fine with me. Hopefully, he'll go out while it's still good - and then start writing "Dunk and Egg stories".

As for there being no heroes, Mistwell, I disagree. Jon is almost a "classic" hero, and if you can't root for him than you probably can't root for anyone.

Dany is also very strong. She's done some things that make you scratch your head at times, but generally she is a "good guy" - so far. I think Martin intends you to identify the saga through their eyes.

I, of course, identify the series through The Lord of Dragonstone and True King of Westeros......(points down to sig)

 

[KnowTheToe]

King S,

You are only reading them for a second time. I am impressed with your memory of the story and characters (things I have read in other posts). I am just starting my second reading and am only a little behind you. I wish I could get my friends to read this, but they won't read any series that is not written to conclusion.

 

[Mistwell]

I agree, Jon is a hero. He is mostly a supporting role, however. You follow him a bit, but you couldn't really say it is told from his perspective. He isn't even in the vast majority of most of the books. I'd be much happier if Jon became the focus of the books.

Dany is not a hero in my eyes. I just think people think of her as a hero because there is soooo much evil done by other characters that she looks good in comparison.

I don't fault people for not needing a hero in their fantasy fiction - however, I prefer one. It's just that, a preference.

 

[King_Stannis]

I agree, Jon is a hero. He is mostly a supporting role, however. You follow him a bit, but you couldn't really say it is told from his perspective. He isn't even in the vast majority of most of the books. I'd be much happier if Jon became the focus of the books.

Dany is not a hero in my eyes. I just think people think of her as a hero because there is soooo much evil done by other characters that she looks good in comparison.

I don't fault people for not needing a hero in their fantasy fiction - however, I prefer one. It's just that, a preference.

Mistwell: If what people are speculating is correct about Jon's heritage, then he will be playing a MUCH bigger role in the coming books of the series. So, too, with Dany.

Thanks, KnowTheToe

 

[drothgery]

Just so we're all clear on this, Jordan started saying "two more books" three books ago.

No he didn't. He was on a 'at least three more books' kick from book 5 to book 9; 'at least two more books' is new, though after reading CoT it's difficult for me to see how he could have been at 'at least three more' before CoT and at 'at least two more' after it.

 

[danbala]

I must admit, I too feel the series has started to become difficult for me, as I feel that there is no real hero for me to sympathize with or root for.

I would think that Jon Snow (and company) fit the bill of CG goodguy pretty well. Also I think Daeyns (sp?) has evolved into a very likable character. Also Samwell Tarley seems to be getting some guts to back up his moral sense. Bran and the Cragomen also seem fairly herioc.

My sense is that people tend to object to the villains being portrayed sympathetically. I have heard that people are uncomfortable with Jaime's roll in the third novel. But, hey, people change.

Some of histories greatest heroes were also villians in some sense -- often in ways that would seem to deny their acts of vallor. LBJ, for example, was famously racist; that is, until he brokered the civil rights act. Grant was a notorious drunk and a great general. There are many others.

I happen to enjoy the fact that this level of complexity is reflected in the novels. To me, every time one of the heroes has doubts, is confused by events, or tempted to do wrong, its like a breath of fresh air.

 

[Alaric_Prympax]

IMO it is the best fantasy series on the shelf. I find it extremely well written. There is plenty of discription to get you to "see" what GRRM wants you to "see" but not too much to draw it and make it boring. He has lots of twists and turns and unexpected events to keep you riveted to the series until you get upset over an event that causes you have to throw the book across the room and not pick it up for awhile (first time that ever happened to me reading a series). Furthermore there is a list of characters in the back listed acording to House to make it easy to find who is who in the series. Yeah, I like the series. I look forward to when A Feast for Crows .

 

[Skade]

I guess I should clarify.

When I said there was a single protagonist, I meant there are several. Jon is a great hero character, and perfectly flawed by self doubt and a little loathing. Luckily his need to protect others far outweighs this. Daenyrs is also somewhat herois, but is colored by the brutality she willingly commits. Brutality far beyond what is NECESSARY for her goals. I actually think of Tyrion as a hero, though his means can be a little dirty. Even when he was loyal to the Lannisters his goals were justified by his family loyalty. The various Houses don't exactly run around calling each other Good and Evil. Everyone has depth. So much depth that some of the "good guys" I cannot stand. I really hated Catlyn Stark (Tully). What Martin gives us though is a chance for some of these characters to grow and redeem themselves, or fall from grace. That is of course unless he kills them off....

I cried at the book throwing scene.
I feeling a little faclemped...talk amongst yourselves. I'll give you a topic. D20 Modern, neither D20, nor Modern....discuss....

 

[jdavis]

I love these books, they have a more gritty realism to them than a lot of fantasy books, of course that is probably one of the reasons they are not universally liked. I have only been suprised by one of the deaths in the book (and she poped back to life) and I like it that people are dying, it's a war. I like the lack of a distinct hero in the book so far, but it mainly seems that that comes from the characters being so spread out. Jon Snow is the main hero of the book but hasn't actually interacted with the majority of the other people in the book yet, which makes me very interested in what is to come. It is a very deep world filled with gray characters, I loved how characters grow and change in the book, particularly Jamie and Tyrion.

I think this story gets compared to Jordan's way too much, they are nothing alike with the exception of both having huge cast and more than 3 books. Martin's story will wrap up eventually and it keeps on moving at a good pace. Jordan's books are slowing down and getting broader in scope, it takes him 300 pages just to get through one day with all his characters, sometimes I just wish he would start a chapter with "and nothing important happened" and get on with people who matter, I don't need to read a transcript of every single conversation. I don't mind the amount of books in Jordan's saga just the quality, I got spoiled to 900 or so pages of good story every year (I started reading them when Eye of the World first came out), now I get 600 pages of ok story and filler with a couple of real good chapters here and there every two years. I have yet to see any problems like that with Martin's books, he is sticking to the point pretty good and seems to have a focus on where this is going.

 

[jhallum]

I like the books, but a buddy of mine doesn't

I love the Martin series, but a buddy of mine doesn't.

He is a Federal Law Enforcement officer, and as he deals with strange folk all day, he didn't like the characterizations in the book--too close to home, I think. I think when he got the first scene between Cersei and Jaime--that's when he threw the book across the room and never looked back. Too bad, but I understand his reasons.