I do / don't like George R.R. Martin's Song of Ice & Fire series

[Avarice]

Yeah, I love them, but...

I can certainly understand why some people wouldn't like the series. Those who want to escape into a setting where good and evil are obvious and clearly defined should probably look elsewhere. Aside from the Others, there are no clearly defined 'bad guys' (though I'm certainly not overly fond of the Lannisters). The characters in this series are all very human, with very believable ambitions, virtues, and frailties. What makes it all the more amazing to me is that Martin is slowly managing to write a very epic tale with these (for the most part) un-epic characters.

And as for the eventual end-of-series book count, my bet is on seven. As others have said, A Feast For Crows wasn't supposed to be its own book, but only a series of flashbacks in the fourth book of what was then going to be a six part series. At any rate, I'm not too worried about him pulling a Jordan; for one thing, Martin has never met a character he can't kill. Dead characters fill no pages. For another, the points of view through which we see his world are very few compared to WoT. Martin doesn't want us to see everything thats going on in ASoIaF, and I think he'd be quite happy if he left us scratching our heads about some of the details when the series ends.


edit: Wow what a pic, btw. You'd think he could have come up with something a little more flattering to put on his own website, eh Doctor M?

 

[Salthanas]

Greetings all

I must admit to not being a fan of GRRM work mainly because i like my fantasy slightly more Tolkiensque I guess. If I want to read a grim and gritty novel set in a medival setting I'd always recommend The Name of the Rose, a novel which IMO blows Martins work out of the water on any number of levels.

yours Salthanas

 

[Knightfall]

Haven't read them. Unsure whether I want to or not.

 

[EricNoah]

Greetings all

I must admit to not being a fan of GRRM work mainly because i like my fantasy slightly more Tolkiensque I guess. If I want to read a grim and gritty novel set in a medival setting I'd always recommend The Name of the Rose, a novel which IMO blows Martins work out of the water on any number of levels.

yours Salthanas

I've read and enjoyed both, and Name of the Rose is right up there in my top 10, along with Martin's series (and yes I insist on calling them one work so I can fit more into my top 10).

 

[Eosin the Red]

Eco is one of my favorites - but I have never counted his works as fantasy. They are more historical suspence. I always thought a degree in semotics (sp) would entitle you to be refered to as "the dude with the big brain." Can you buy those?

Strange trend in "Fav Author." Maybe the tone of the intial post fuels it? It seems to me that a large number of posts are saying "He sucks, this guy is better." When "this guy" writes stories that are in a different sub-genere. Maybe I should build a poll talking about all the sub-sections of fantasy? We could all argue about Tolkien and Jordan being High Fantasy, Low Fantasy or Epic Fantasy. Martin could get S&S (swords & more swords ) while Salvatore could get....well, I will be polite.

See, even I did it.


To the original post - I fianlly thought of something you might like - David Gemmel. I find it light and refreshing after a Martin/Jordan book. He writes familiar stories with a rough and tumble attiude. I have read very few (none) who can tell the cliche stories that Gemmel does and leave me wanting more. The stories are rather strait forward where men are men and your own fear is the greatest enemy. Some of the women kick hiney also.

 

[Salthanas]

Eco is one of my favorites - but I have never counted his works as fantasy. They are more historical suspence. I always thought a degree in semotics (sp) would entitle you to be refered to as "the dude with the big brain." Can you buy those?

Strange trend in "Fav Author." Maybe the tone of the intial post fuels it? It seems to me that a large number of posts are saying "He sucks, this guy is better." When "this guy" writes stories that are in a different sub-genere. Maybe I should build a poll talking about all the sub-sections of fantasy? We could all argue about Tolkien and Jordan being High Fantasy, Low Fantasy or Epic Fantasy. Martin could get S&S (swords & more swords ) while Salvatore could get....well, I will be polite.

See, even I did it.


To the original post - I fianlly thought of something you might like - David Gemmel. I find it light and refreshing after a Martin/Jordan book. He writes familiar stories with a rough and tumble attiude. I have read very few (none) who can tell the cliche stories that Gemmel does and leave me wanting more. The stories are rather strait forward where men are men and your own fear is the greatest enemy. Some of the women kick hiney also.

I did not mean to say that The Name of the Rose was a fantasy book. As you said its more of a historical suspence. People seem to have a need to read novels that they regard as more realistic these days, in fact to some people that goes to the heart of Martins appeal. If someone however wanted to read something that portrayed an accurate representation of the grimness of medival times I'd recommend it rather than some of the ultra low magic fantasy settings.

To be clear its not that I think Martins a bad writer, far from it, the political dimensions to his books are extremely well done its just that for me it was hard to find an attachment to any of the characters or in some ways the overall story, perhaps because if there is an overall theme to it all its not always obvious.


yours Salthanas

 

[Eosin the Red]

hehehe, I thought I was reading in the "ENworld book recommendations suck" thread. Hence the thought.

Good points.

 

[Shard O'Glase]

don't like as far as I read.

1. bored stiff reading it.

2. characters unrealistic to me, and while that in itself wont kill it they also didn't interest me in any way to make me give a crap what happened to them. (unrealsitc-sure people like that can and do exist, but so do the way too good hero, or the way too evil villans ala Jordan and many other fantasy writers, in Martins they were all freaks, if a few of them were freaks I'd be ok, but all of them oi. And since none of the characters grabbed me at all well a no-read for me. For Jordan Rand initially grabbed me, but he has sucked so bad for so many books, and Matt the only character I like is just not in the books enough, so I'm done with Jordan likely though when he's done with the series I may finish it just to put an end to the time investment in thos stories)

 

[WizarDru]

I enjoyed Jordan before he lost his way (and, apparently, his editor). But GRRM, on the other hand, has yet to fail to please. His prose is exacting, his characters intriguing and the plot is unpredictable. I disagree that there are no heroes in the series, although if you're looking for a kwisatz hadderach ala Richard Cypher ("You are a rare man, Richard Cypher"), you won't find him here. Most of GRRM's characters are too difficult to pin down as straight villains or heroes....they're people, real three-dimensional characters.

When's the last time Jordan killed an actual main character? The one he did kill, everyone pretty much assumes she's still alive, since we don't KNOW that she's dead. GRRM's narrative feels like it's GOING SOMEWHERE. I still love Jordan, but he no longer grabs me as he once did. We need more of the 'Conan' Jordan, these days.


And for the record, GRRM is not a fantasy writer, he's a writer. He's written as much Science-Fiction and modern fantasy as 'swords-and-sorcery', and unlike Jordan, some of his best work, IMHO, is as AN EDITOR, not a writer.

 

[Harp]

One thing that really stands out to me about Martin (I'm a huge fan) is that the better part of his story is told from the perspective of kids (teens or pre-teens). Speaking as someone who typically despises the use of children in narrative, who are more often than not merely cutesy pseudo-characters, I have to say that Martin must have a gift to make me care so much about who these people are and what fate holds for them. Granted, the young people in his story don't have the cares and concerns of typical kids, but I'm still impressed with the way he's fleshed them out into full-fledged, multidimensional people, as they should be.