I feel like a hypocrite (CHA skills and RP)

[Michael Morris]

Why do people feel this way? The DM will compel your character to fall when he jumps of a bridge. No magic involved, just plain physics. Why then can't the DM compel a character to accept an offer of a free drink from a super model?

Players have precious little enough control over the game as it is. The DM doesn't need to be intruding on the thought processes of the character for them. Ever watch a movie and thought to yourself (or yelled at the screen) don't do that!! RPG's are *our* chance to make a difference in the story - and compelling a character's action robs the players of their fundemental right to control their own character.

Since I DM I occasionally randomize my player character's actions - but that's my choice to make for my PC, not the DM's. If any DM ever told me that I do something without a spell being involved I'd pack up my books and leave.

Remember folks, it is not the DM but the players that have the final vote on the campaign as a whole -- they can refuse to play. I've seen more than a few would-be DM's whine about not being able to run a game for lack of players at my FLGS. There isn't a lack of players - hell I turn folks away regularly (my projector screen setup has become legendary). These particular DM's just outright suck at DMing and no one wants to play in a game they run.

 

[Hussar]

Why do people feel this way? The DM will compel your character to fall when he jumps of a bridge. No magic involved, just plain physics. Why then can't the DM compel a character to accept an offer of a free drink from a super model?

I was going to comment on this, but I got beaten to it by the two above me.

There's a significant difference between applying physics and choice. Now, if I told the player that his character jumped off the cliff because I thought that his character would be so despondent as to be suicidal, then I'm way out of bounds as a DM.

 

[buzz]

Why do people feel this way? The DM will compel your character to fall when he jumps of a bridge. No magic involved, just plain physics. Why then can't the DM compel a character to accept an offer of a free drink from a super model?

There's a basic assumpiton in most RPGs that normal physics works unless the rules say otherwise. The DM doens't make the character obey gravity, the assumed setting does.

Compelling the player to do something is removing their ability to input the play. This is about as fun as standing in line at the DMV.

 

[buzz]

You can use the roll to determine if the NPC figures out the right things to say. It's an indirect way to work the skill.

Why don't you just decide whether that NPC is the one you want to say the right thing? Too much rollin', man.

 

[Stalker0]

I agree that a DM shouldn't force a character to play a certain way. However, by the same token I expect a character to act in character. If your playing a character who chases any woman with a pulse and suddenly you stay away from a woman because you don't feel its the "optimum" action, then as a DM I want a really good reason why your doing it.

In this situation I think the character did the right thing. His disgust at the man outweighed the desire for the woman, makes sense to me.

 

[Michael Morris]

Why don't you just decide whether that NPC is the one you want to say the right thing? Too much rollin', man.

Because my friend randomizing NPC behaviors makes it harder on the players. It prevents them from predicting what comes next based on what they know of my personality. I relegate most decisions that I don't care about the outcome of to the dice because in the end it's a game.

 

[maggot]

Since I DM I occasionally randomize my player character's actions - but that's my choice to make for my PC, not the DM's. If any DM ever told me that I do something without a spell being involved I'd pack up my books and leave.

Perhaps it is this player vs. DM hostility that is the root of the problem.

And I would walk out of a game where players routinely randomized there actions. I don't see a lot of people doing that in real life, nor in the books and movies that inspire my role-playing.

 

[shilsen]

And I would walk out of a game where players routinely randomized there actions. I don't see a lot of people doing that in real life, nor in the books and movies that inspire my role-playing.

You must be meeting different people to me. Every day I see people randomize their actions based on how mood, energetic/tired they are feeling, time of day, health, what people around them have been doing/saying, and simple impulse. Even the most consistent people. That's the interesting thing about human beings.

That's also one way that our books and movies differ from real life people. Fictional characters tend to be more consistent than actual people, simply because readers/viewers expect such consistency. It's like the fact that real life is usually stranger than fiction, because there ar emany things people accept in real life that they would find too implausible in fiction.

 

[Bagpuss]

I've no problem with non-magical effects prompting player responses, in life I've frequently not done things because of fear, revulsion, lust or other less than purely logical reasons. Why should my character be any different?

D&D doesn't really support NPCs or events forcing reactions from characters, but many other systems do and it wouldn't be hard to adapt D&D to, if you wanted that sort of game. I wouldn't do that sort of thing in a standard D&D because without drama points or some such mechanic that still presents the player a choice it is too easy to be used as (or confused with) railroading.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

I don't quite agree with the rule that some skills just can't be applied to players.

The trick of rolling in secret and playing the NPC accordingly is, of course, very good. THe NPCs alter the PCs' reaction because you alter the players' reactions.

Otherwise, it's always easy to say "no, my character won't succumb to intimidation/seduction" because no 7 foot guy just ate a wineglass and spit the shards in your face, no scantily clad vixen is sitting on your lap, sucking on your finger while caressing your cheek, all the while suggesting that quiet, lockable chamber down the hall to be a good place for.... negotiations.

I'd say you roll against the players, and then tell them how things look for their characters. If they stay in character and do let themselves be seduced (having failed the will save against the diplomacy/seduction roll, with a big bonus to the will save if they know that that girl is a Succubus or things like that), then they get a nice juicy XP-Penalty for playing out of character. Just like the Int 6 Orc fighter who knows all the good tactics against spellcasters right in the first combat against one.