I Find Your Lack of Warblades Disturbing.

[moritheil]

There are very few builds for Warblade/Wizards or Warblade/Psions. This is surprising because one would think that they would be acceptably powerful combinations. Crusader tends to be much more popular with Wizard, probably because it offers Heavy Armor proficiency (qualifying the character for various fighter/mage PrCs.) But one would think that two classes built off the same stat would be combined more frequently. I tried checking recently, and I can't even find one serious premade Warblade/Psion or Warblade/Wiz build, though there are hundreds of examples of Crusader dips for Wizards (then into Spellsword/JPM, mostly.) Even Duskblade/Warblade would probably be optimizable, but I have yet to see a consensus on a standard build.

Where is the warblade love?

 

[Dice4Hire]

Several reasons.

One, the warblade offers very little for a one-level dip, whereas the Crusader is far better.

Second, if you want to be the magic side of such a multiclass, you do not want to give up more than one level of spellcasting.

Third, if you really need warblade stuff, spend a couple of feats to get it. Martial study and the stance one work well.

 

[Nifft]

Warblade//Psion is always a recommended Gestalt choice.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Dice4Hire]

Warblade//Psion is always a recommended Gestalt choice.

Cheers, -- N

Yes, I was assuming the OP meant regular MC. In gestalt a psion Warblade is terrifying.

 

[moritheil]

One, the warblade offers very little for a one-level dip, whereas the Crusader is far better.

I thought it might be something like that. Has anyone tried to quantify the benefits?

Second, if you want to be the magic side of such a multiclass, you do not want to give up more than one level of spellcasting.

Well, you'll give up two for JPM dipping, but that does seem to be about the limit. Full JPM requires more and I'm sure there are reams of analysis on its merits.

Third, if you really need warblade stuff, spend a couple of feats to get it. Martial study and the stance one work well.

I really don't know about the advisability of burning feats in this manner in a fighter/mage build - aren't they feat-starved as is?

Yes, I was assuming the OP meant regular MC. In gestalt a psion Warblade is terrifying.

Of course. But yes, I meant regular.

 

[Darklone]

Crusader wizards are better at healing themselves... something a wizard usually cant do. Thus crusaders dips feel better... touchy.

 

[blargney the second]

Delayed damage pool + minor shapeshift = win!

 

[Folly]

I could see doing a single level of Warblade + Wizard. With a single level of warblade, you get to add your int to reflex saves, and can pick up concentration check in place of a will save counter. (sorry my memory for names today is terrible) On top of those the stances available can be beneficial.

Overall, it doesn't seem like a bad idea, but at the same time giving up a spell level is a hard sell.

 

[moritheil]

Overall, it doesn't seem like a bad idea, but at the same time giving up a spell level is a hard sell.

Well, this came about because Warblade > Fighter, and splashing a level of Fighter with levels of Wizard was the old way to do a fighter/mage: Wiz 4/Ftr 1/Spellsword 1/Eldritch Knight (or other PrC) X. There are two lost caster levels in there and two lost BAB points.

If making a martial adept, we can substitute Crusader in for the fighter level and use Jade Phoenix Mage instead of Eldritch Knight. The problem is that JPM is not a 9/10 progression; it has to be broken off in the middle. Warblade instead of Crusader means losing a feat to gain Heavy Armor Prof.

I was thinking Warblade should have something that makes up for this lack of heavy armor prof. but it seems that there isn't really anything, unless you want to count the Warblade Int to Ref save in place of Lightning Reflexes.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

Delayed damage pool + minor shapeshift = win!

I had never even thought of that combo, but yes, that would be a good reason!

I think the reason is a combo of 4 things.
1) While Warblade is int-based, the designers had the unfortunately sage wisdom to parcel out those int abilities over the full class progression making dips less useful,
2) Crusader with a charisma penalty loses almost nothing. They really don't even use cha for that much, barring added on feats to make it more useful, so A wizard / Crusader really doesn't suffer any more MAD than normal.
3) If you're going into a prestige class like JPM, the Crusader benefits more than any other base initiator class from extra readied maneuvers, since each one gained also increases the number granted.
4) A Warblade takes a swift action + a standard (or attack, to a spellcaster, same difference, barring a touch spell) action to recover maneuvers. Those are a mage's most important actions, as most rounds he can get off a spell with each. The swift also potentially gets in the way of using an immediate action spell the round prior, like Wings of Cover, if a sorcerer. Crusader, on the other hand, refreshes at no action cost. Actions are precious to a caster (except move actions ).