I gave a little, and now they want...

[diaglo]

On handling social situations:

Here's how I handle it, and it has worked pretty well. The player's actions (ie, the roleplay) determine what happens; the skill check determines the success of that action.

So for example, if the player wants to negotiate with the mayor, he doesn't just say "I negotiate with the mayor, my Diplomacy roll is 18. -- if he does, I ask "So what do you say?". We carry on a conversation for a while, and at a point I think is appropriate, I have the player make a diplomacy check, and the success/failure of the check determines the course of further roleplay.

what about the player who only says things like "Parrot, parrot, parrot"

or "Smooze"

as his response and did it for 1.5 years in the campaign.

edit: and rolled some out of this frelling world high score for his skill check so he could keep it. or if he rolled low would then offer to reroll it after some rather longwinded speech.

edit2: i could always count on the DM to remember the NPCs and the key elements in the game. i could also count on some of the players for things. one player would remember all the stuff i took in tho he wasn't around. but could he remember the name of the BBEG we chased around for 4 frelling session. no. and then he would turn to me and ask for the name. even tho i wasn't around when he was telling someone In character. so i could count on the hand and halfer to metagame the hell out of the game and ruin my enjoyment of when he should've been squirming.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

I like that D20 Modern talent = feat idea.

I've found Diplomacy and Bluff to be "too powerful" as skills IMC. Not everyone is going to have Sense Motive, after all, which means you can freely lie to just about anyone.

In any event, I make the players talk. They don't have to do so in first person, just say what they want to say. Then I tell them to roll Diplomacy or Bluff, with a hidden modifier based on what they have said.

 

[kigmatzomat]

There's a general feel in the group that they really want storyhooks bound into detailed NPC's and interaction with powerful NPC's. Its just that Mr. Roll Player, as he was tittled earlier, is the only one who's willing to play a really socially active character. I really don't feel like punishing him for giving it a try, but...well, the results don't seem to be that good either...

In my game the most social character is played by a person who has a serious case of foot-in-mouth disease. What I do is have him explain what he would like to say, a general attitude or style, any mitigating factors he wants to use and then make the roll. A recent request to see a noble was done by making the request "politely but with the implication that the noble *will* see them supported by the letter of introduction from another noble, a commendation for slaying a hydra, and listing their cities of residence (indicating they own property in multiple areas)."

Had he botched it would have come out "See these papers? They mean I get to see your boss. Get out of my way you insignificant worm." Of course a 2 means he gets a 22 and he says "Greetings my good man, I am Colonel Ehrin, of Blevins Gap and Myreth. I would like to meet with Lord Muckymuck at his first convenience. These documents will vouschafe my identity."

For everyone else I simply assume that for non-critical encounters they Take 10 and come across as average people

The player has to know *who* to be social with but doesn't have to be the social one. He's still in charge and he's gotten very good at learning who to seek out so he's still a social player. Sure, the dice have a big impact but that's a game.

 

[Malk]

The splat books and other sources with new feats, skills, PrCs, etc. are like drugs. Players find the one they like and go for it, becoming your new junkies. Now you the DM are the dealer in this market, giving and taking, nerfing and expanding, so you can give these players what they need to calm their shivers. The availability is up to you. The dosage is up to you. You have the power of DM/dealer, and the terf on this block is all yours. Are you gonna fold out of weakness to them or are you gonna make them suffer?

My suggestion is to take your players favorite drug/PrC that he wants to use and bring it back to your basement laboratory. Distill it, fiddle with it, bake it, and finally throw out a better product on the street that fits the bill for your terf. Does he like it? He doesn't have too; it's all that's out there. Did he have something better when he lived in LA? Perhaps, but this is your town, baby, and you are the king now. You get what I give ya, or nuthin' at all.

he dosnt like it? he dosnt have too.

im sorry but yes he does, there has to be some sort of agreement. sure the dm is in charge, but no one is more important than anyone else. everyone deserves enjoyment.

 

[billd91]

I'm going to take a different tack on this. The player is not necessarily wrong. It's not just your game. You do not and should not have all the power as DM….billd91
HMM bill are you saying you want to play the red baron when the other players and DM are playing cowboys and Indians?

Sure. Playing an American western game and someone wants to play a German aristocrat, perhaps traveling from the east coast along the new railroads to San Francisco? Why not? He'd have a fairly different set of skills, maybe he'd want to settle in the mining boomtown of Billings where he can eventually link up with a disaffected Irish diaspora and set up links that might get guns secretly shipped to the Irish Republican Brotherhood for the start of the 1916 rebellion 20 years later...
The biplane idea might not fit though since they wouldn't be up to the Fokker tri-plane until WWI.

And then having a player want to bring in Superman to a cops and robber game. And player batting their pretty eyelashes and say please oh please mr dm can I have superman. He has this cool power and that cool power and I won’t use my x-ray vision. Then as soon as the DM back is turn. Superman is scoping out the girls locker room, and for out of no where is were a ring of spell turning and has a kryptonite proof plate mail. And innocently ask why didn’t I remember all the cool stuff. Sorry. No.

I can't even figure out where this went. Superman in cops and robbers and then a ring of spell turning? Negotiating changes and exceptions with a player and giving them superman is the DM making a mistake. That doesn't mean that every player is going to ask for the moon and expect to get it, or that you have to give it to them. But why not be open to giving them something different if the concept is good?

For example a drizzit lover wanted to play a drow imc. I told her yes…BUT the neck tie party would begin immediately if she was discovered on wood elves lands. And it would be up to the party to save her.

But notice also that you left the choice of the character to her, just told her that there might be consequences if not played realistically with the setting. That's not slamming the door, it's a negotiation between you and the player (and in this case, between her and the other players).

 

[Pyske]

The dm sets the limits. Aka Core or the door. Core and wotc, or enter your favor splat books here. When a player whines to bend the rules my xp has proven bad idea.

As do the players. "Door, thanks." As long as your players are interchangable, this is no big deal. When you care whether this particular player stays (either because they are a great roleplayer or a close friend) it becomes more important.

Ideally, people set their limits, and everyone finds that they overlap somewhere in the "I can live with that" region that they can compromise on.

. . . . . . . -- Eric

 

[Telperion]

Interesting.
I never believed this thread would go so far...

The following material is open to my players:

1. Core Books

2. 5 Player's Guide books designed specifically for Scarred Lands.

3. I also hand out stuff from a large set of campaign specific books.

There was a thread about Scarred Lands prestige classes some time ago, and the number of PrC's was rather large. So, why give other stuff to players that they won't see anyone else using inside the game world? Where do they pick up these new and wonderful skills / feats / PrC abilities? There's a host of supplementary material to use, so I see no reason to expand the horizon to the unknown.

 

[JoeGKushner]

Here's my take.

Provide a list of what's allowed and move on. Problem solved.

The PrCs, feats and other goods are all options. All of the material in the Player's Handbook, while official, is all subject to the GM's call.

I think that the problem isn't so many options, it's GMs who can't say no. Not every group is meant to contain all of its players. I've lost players who wanted X, Y and Z and told them they weren't going to get it and that's that.

 

[Saeviomagy]

edit: and rolled some out of this frelling world high score for his skill check so he could keep it. or if he rolled low would then offer to reroll it after some rather longwinded speech.

No offense intended, but I've no idea what you're trying to say here. Care to restate it?

edit2: i could always count on the DM to remember the NPCs and the key elements in the game. i could also count on some of the players for things. one player would remember all the stuff i took in tho he wasn't around. but could he remember the name of the BBEG we chased around for 4 frelling session. no. and then he would turn to me and ask for the name. even tho i wasn't around when he was telling someone In character. so i could count on the hand and halfer to metagame the hell out of the game and ruin my enjoyment of when he should've been squirming.

Again. No idea. I think one person remembers everything and the other fails to remember BBEG names, and somehow this is annoying you. I can't work out whether you're the DM or a player, and I really can't work out why this gets to you so much.

 

[Saeviomagy]

I am sorry, maybe I should claify. I do not Rail Road or use the Plot Wagon on players. I like to write my adventures and campaign settings as livng open worlds. The players have free choice about how they want to run there characters and what kinda of game they want. They want poltics and urban adventure, I got it.They want ot explore dunegons and ruins they can do that too.

What I don't like is players who do the following:

- You Panethon sucks because your gods don't have the right Domain Combos.

Depends what the 'right' domain combo's are. If the player was intending to be a cleric of the fateful journey, and you have no god that could possibly fill that role, then perhaps it IS a failing of your pantheon, or your failure to explain the setting (ie - there is the imperial cult pantheon and no others). I really see this as strangling some good character concepts.

- What do you mean no Prestige Classes????

There are an awful lot of character concepts that are a waste of time and space without some rules to back them up (ie - a fighter wizard). Most often those rules will come from PrC's.

- What do you mean that Elves can't be clerics and Humans can't be Wizards?! That sucks !!?? What kinda of Dm are you!

If you just say it that way, with nothing to back it up, then it's just unnecessarily removing some character concepts from the game. I mean are there truly no elves that have faith in a god? And no humans who want to study the arcane arts?

- What no Half-orcs and No Barbarians. Come on man I want to run my fav , Grog the Destoyer again
...
....

On the whole, you seem to be saying "screw the players, I don't care if they have fun/want to play/get to play the character they envisioned."

Your responses (imagined and inferred from the responses above, and backed up by the tone of your posts), seem to all be of the "no, you can't have this" variety, rather than "Well, given facts X, Y and Z, how can you explain your character?".

What IS the rationale behind "no barbarians", "no elven clerics" and "no human wizards"??