Sadras
Legend
I actually did say that (reread my post), but it doesnt harm if you want to say that too
D&D 5E I gave my players too much gold
I actually did say that (reread my post), but it doesnt harm if you want to say that too
Warunsun
First Post
How to get your player's to spend gold!
First, I understand your pain. I, also, have been converting first edition and OSR modules over to 5E as part of my content. In those there tends to be lots of gold. Sometimes I have given them the full amounts and in other encounters I cut it down on the fly. So far about half of my content was made up by me so in those episodes I gave the PCs far less gold generally. I had the advantage that I started my campaign about a week or two after the Dungeon Master's Guide came out. I have enforced the full encumbrance rules (Variant: Encumbrance) from the start. My players actually discarded some of their free background/class equipment in the beginning. So they don't stockpile coins. Coins weight you down. The first magic item they discovered was a Warhammer +1. They have actually traded it around the party (for free) because none of them wanted to carry the weight once they found a few other weapons. I have also done Training to Gain levels since the start. I slightly modified the table so that the costs were more and the time a bit less. This is what I used:
Table: Training to Gain Levels
Also don't overlook Factions/Affiliations/Organizations in the Dungeon Master's Guide! They are a great resource to drain gold and offer item purchases. I have the following factions available in my campaign:
Bard’s College; 100 GP per year at the basic level.
Dark Moon Monastery; Joining requires 10% tithe.
Guild of Wizardry; 100 GP per year at the basic level.
Temple Organization (Church of X); Joining requires 10% tithe.
The Mercenaries’ Guild; 50 GP per year at the basic level.
Thieves’ Guild; 25% of coins stolen or begged or valuables swindled.
Each organization has 5 ranks per the faction rules and benefits increase as the ranks increase including item purchases. This generally has been the only way PCs have purchased items in my campaign and so far it has been limited mainly to Potions of Healing from the Temple and a few spells from the Wizard's Guild. Item crafting is generally a Rank 3 benefit (requires 5th level plus Renown/Rank) and would allow a PC to acquire an item they really wanted with some gold, time, and possible quest investment. Uncommon item purchasing comes in at Rank 4 (requires 11th level plus Renown/Rank) or higher.
I also raised the price of Tool/Language training and cut down the number of days. Firstly, because I think 250 days is far too long. Secondly, I figured it would be a good way to spend money. I went for 1 month/250 gold for standard languages and 2 months/500 gold for exotics ones. I also set tool training at 1000 gold and it takes 3 months.
But I also agree that the suggestions for magic item distribution in the Dungeon Master's Guide seems a little wonky and low. Looking briefly at my notes here the Cleric has three permanent magic items, the bard has five, the fighter has four, the rogue has two plus a cursed Stone of Bad Luck, the wizard has three, and the monk has two. These characters just gained 5th level. I guess they are still barely within the guidelines (a bit stretched) but 6 'permanent' items per PC at 20th level seems asinine for Dungeons & Dragons. Even in Dark Sun World modules where magic was supposed to the lowest in the D&D multiverse characters ended up with buckets of items by 10th level. The party only has four magic weapons (plus the Warhammer +1 that folks seldom use). The fighter has two of them as well since he fights Florentine style. I think it is pretty reasonable. Since I have converted old modules the PCs have found a couple of items that generally considered rare like a Ring of Protection. But this doesn't bother me since I am fully enforcing attunement rules. I am sure my PCs will be over the guidelines by retirement but hopefully they will not be carrying around bags of extra items.
First, I understand your pain. I, also, have been converting first edition and OSR modules over to 5E as part of my content. In those there tends to be lots of gold. Sometimes I have given them the full amounts and in other encounters I cut it down on the fly. So far about half of my content was made up by me so in those episodes I gave the PCs far less gold generally. I had the advantage that I started my campaign about a week or two after the Dungeon Master's Guide came out. I have enforced the full encumbrance rules (Variant: Encumbrance) from the start. My players actually discarded some of their free background/class equipment in the beginning.
So they don't stockpile coins. Coins weight you down. The first magic item they discovered was a Warhammer +1. They have actually traded it around the party (for free) because none of them wanted to carry the weight once they found a few other weapons. I have also done Training to Gain levels since the start. I slightly modified the table so that the costs were more and the time a bit less. This is what I used:Table: Training to Gain Levels
| Level Attained | Time | Cost |
| 2nd-4th | 1 week | 50 gold |
| 5th-10th | 2 weeks | 100 gold |
| 11th-16th | 1 month | 500 gold |
| 17th-20th | 2 months | 1000 gold |
Also don't overlook Factions/Affiliations/Organizations in the Dungeon Master's Guide! They are a great resource to drain gold and offer item purchases. I have the following factions available in my campaign:
Bard’s College; 100 GP per year at the basic level.
Dark Moon Monastery; Joining requires 10% tithe.
Guild of Wizardry; 100 GP per year at the basic level.
Temple Organization (Church of X); Joining requires 10% tithe.
The Mercenaries’ Guild; 50 GP per year at the basic level.
Thieves’ Guild; 25% of coins stolen or begged or valuables swindled.
Each organization has 5 ranks per the faction rules and benefits increase as the ranks increase including item purchases. This generally has been the only way PCs have purchased items in my campaign and so far it has been limited mainly to Potions of Healing from the Temple and a few spells from the Wizard's Guild. Item crafting is generally a Rank 3 benefit (requires 5th level plus Renown/Rank) and would allow a PC to acquire an item they really wanted with some gold, time, and possible quest investment. Uncommon item purchasing comes in at Rank 4 (requires 11th level plus Renown/Rank) or higher.
I also raised the price of Tool/Language training and cut down the number of days. Firstly, because I think 250 days is far too long. Secondly, I figured it would be a good way to spend money. I went for 1 month/250 gold for standard languages and 2 months/500 gold for exotics ones. I also set tool training at 1000 gold and it takes 3 months.
But I also agree that the suggestions for magic item distribution in the Dungeon Master's Guide seems a little wonky and low. Looking briefly at my notes here the Cleric has three permanent magic items, the bard has five, the fighter has four, the rogue has two plus a cursed Stone of Bad Luck, the wizard has three, and the monk has two. These characters just gained 5th level. I guess they are still barely within the guidelines (a bit stretched) but 6 'permanent' items per PC at 20th level seems asinine for Dungeons & Dragons. Even in Dark Sun World modules where magic was supposed to the lowest in the D&D multiverse characters ended up with buckets of items by 10th level. The party only has four magic weapons (plus the Warhammer +1 that folks seldom use). The fighter has two of them as well since he fights Florentine style. I think it is pretty reasonable. Since I have converted old modules the PCs have found a couple of items that generally considered rare like a Ring of Protection. But this doesn't bother me since I am fully enforcing attunement rules. I am sure my PCs will be over the guidelines by retirement but hopefully they will not be carrying around bags of extra items.
Bupp
Adventurer
I did this in my game recently. Got it out of some 3rd party adventure.
Some off duty town guards found a vein of gold in an abandoned mine. They didn't want work to get out, so instead of bringing in nuggets, they made a deal with the weaponsmith to mint counterfeit coins that they could spend. The coins were pretty good, with only a few flaws, but to increase his cut, the weaponsmith started mixing some copper in with the gold. The guards started spending them around town, eventually flooding the market, but then the counterfeits were discovered, though no one knew where they came from. Prices in town skyrocketed since most of the local coinage was known to be of lesser value. Eventually, no one in town would accept the counterfeits anymore, but unfortunately most everyone was stuck with some. So what the merchants started doing was to use them as payment or to give change to out of towners, such as adventurers. Now the party is stuck with coins that no one will accept.
In my game this led to the party investigating and rooting out the source of the counterfeit coins. I lowered the value of the loot that they did have, and got a nice little side quest out of it.
Some off duty town guards found a vein of gold in an abandoned mine. They didn't want work to get out, so instead of bringing in nuggets, they made a deal with the weaponsmith to mint counterfeit coins that they could spend. The coins were pretty good, with only a few flaws, but to increase his cut, the weaponsmith started mixing some copper in with the gold. The guards started spending them around town, eventually flooding the market, but then the counterfeits were discovered, though no one knew where they came from. Prices in town skyrocketed since most of the local coinage was known to be of lesser value. Eventually, no one in town would accept the counterfeits anymore, but unfortunately most everyone was stuck with some. So what the merchants started doing was to use them as payment or to give change to out of towners, such as adventurers. Now the party is stuck with coins that no one will accept.
In my game this led to the party investigating and rooting out the source of the counterfeit coins. I lowered the value of the loot that they did have, and got a nice little side quest out of it.
travathian
First Post
Agreed.
I have always hated the idea of a 'magic store' in D&D. Even in a major city. How would you defend it against theft/burglary? What about taxes on sales of magic items? Why would the adventurers trust a shopkeep claiming that a sword that glows as magical is +5? Which store would get hit first in the event of a riot?
Silliness.
If any place in a major city is going to have a number of magic items it would be guilds/organizations. Wizards guild, thieves guild, major temples, the elite guard/army of the city, etc. And guess what, they aren't just going to sell magic items to anyone with coin.
Thieves guild might be wary you are undercover.
Wizards guild might require a certain level of membership.
Temples might only offer them to members of the faith.
Warrior/army/guard organizations may only sell to trusted members of the community.
So there is your hook. The PCs have a ton of gold, well guess what, they have a lot of schmoozing, donating, bribing, etc to do in this city before they will get a sniff at some decent magic items.
Shemeska
Adventurer
Absolutely this.
If you need to winnow down their cash that might cause them to buy things that would screw the balance of at-level encounters, get them to spend cash on things that are flush with RP and plot hook potential, but aren't used in combat.
For instance, my players in my Pathfinder campaign are level 12 right now. They just auctioned off an artifact for roughly 4 million gp. At the same time they'd just dropped around 300k on property in the city that the campaign has been centered on. The gold they earned and the item they sold (to probably the worst person to have the item in question) are going to inform a number of things in the campaign end-game plot.
Sword of Spirit
Legend
See, this is what I'd think of as a player with that cash. I like that there won't be magic items to buy so I can afford to start acquiring luxury items and wealthy lifestyles!
(Now I just need to wait until one of my friends decides to start DMing a 5e campaign--currently I'm the only one I know DMing 5e.)
Henry
Autoexreginated
Not to single out travathian specifically, but I wanted to consider your statement, substituting "jeweler" with "Magic store":
I have always hated the idea of a 'Jeweler' in D&D. Even in a major city. How would you defend it against theft/burglary? What about taxes on sales of jewelry? Why would the adventurers trust a shopkeep claiming that a diamond is not as advertised? Which store would get hit first in the event of a riot?
Purveyors of fine goods (and especially consigned items) all have had these problems throughout civilization - and in past ages typically sold primarily to nobility, but more to those who could afford them. It's really no sillier to have magic item consigners than to have jewelers, silversmiths, goldsmiths, or similar professions. I was reading a reference online just now that suggests the city of Paris for instance had over 100 goldsmiths employed in the 1200s!
So if someone finds it not in keeping with their notions of genre that's fine, but different from being just "silliness".
travathian
First Post
You're seriously comparing magic items to jewelry?
First off, the prices for magic items in the DMG are a joke. 7500gp for a 'jeweled platinum ring' but less than 5000gp for a broom that flies?!? Less than 500gp to take any weakling and make them as strong as an ogre with some gauntlets? Silliness. Either reduce art/gems by a factor of 10, or increase magic items by the same. Second, any schmuck can make a gold ring. Not anyone can make a magic one, which is why a magic shop would be an ultra high profile target. Lastly, not every 'goldsmith' is going to have a storefront shop to be robbed. Plenty of them would work with other crafters to just inlay gold into something else, like churches, temples, royal buildings, etc. Not to mention, how big was Paris compared to the rest of Europe back then? Pretty big. So sure, if you are in the biggest city in the entire kingdom, you might drop down a magic item shop. Which I am sure will have walls lined with all sorts of wonderous things right?
And then comparing the real world to a world in which people can cast magic to make themselves invisible, teleport, polymorph/shape change, use telekinesis, put people to sleep or charm them, etc? Really?
How again do you defend against this when you have a magic shop with stock values ranging from 5k to 500k? Any decent level group of adventurers could clear the place out. Let's see, they can target the silver smith, jeweler, or goldsmith and get some loot orrrrr they can target the magic shop that is full of potentially useful stuff. Hmmmmm
First off, the prices for magic items in the DMG are a joke. 7500gp for a 'jeweled platinum ring' but less than 5000gp for a broom that flies?!? Less than 500gp to take any weakling and make them as strong as an ogre with some gauntlets? Silliness. Either reduce art/gems by a factor of 10, or increase magic items by the same. Second, any schmuck can make a gold ring. Not anyone can make a magic one, which is why a magic shop would be an ultra high profile target. Lastly, not every 'goldsmith' is going to have a storefront shop to be robbed. Plenty of them would work with other crafters to just inlay gold into something else, like churches, temples, royal buildings, etc. Not to mention, how big was Paris compared to the rest of Europe back then? Pretty big. So sure, if you are in the biggest city in the entire kingdom, you might drop down a magic item shop. Which I am sure will have walls lined with all sorts of wonderous things right?
And then comparing the real world to a world in which people can cast magic to make themselves invisible, teleport, polymorph/shape change, use telekinesis, put people to sleep or charm them, etc? Really?
How again do you defend against this when you have a magic shop with stock values ranging from 5k to 500k? Any decent level group of adventurers could clear the place out. Let's see, they can target the silver smith, jeweler, or goldsmith and get some loot orrrrr they can target the magic shop that is full of potentially useful stuff. Hmmmmm
Magic item shops need some extra protection if you're going to use them in 5th Edition. Wizards are very much more powerful than anyone else, and rogues in particular aren't even that much weaker than fighters anymore. They don't represent as much of a deterrent, and they need extra protection to keep their business secure.
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