Pathfinder 1E I get the feeling Paizo isn't worried about Wizards of the Coast.

[Imaro]

You're kidding, right? WotC made more money selling the respective "core books" of 3E, 3.5E and 4E than they did of anything they published after it. The one thing that has been shown is that people WILL buy a new edition's first set of books. Always. Much moreso than anything they might publish in Year 8 of this decade plan you mention. And the reason why is that it's a "new game"... and new games usually get bought in greater numbers that supplements to existing games.

You do realize the decade claim was made by WotC themselves right? It's in the 4e PHB where they make the claim that 4e would firmly establish D&D for the next decade. Of course now that we're at the end of the road we know that 4e didn't last anywhere near a decade... I guess my point is that I don't think it's unfair to call them out on the fact that maybe they shouldn't have established that as a benchmark for the last edition.

 

[DEFCON 1]

I'm sorry by Kobold Boots has a point.

I did exactly what you said with 4E. I bought the gift set (Player's Handbook, DM's Guide and Monster Manual) ran a few games and the system wasn't for me. And I was stuck (and still am) with a core set than I'm never going to use. Not because I cant find players, not because there's no time but because I don't care for the game.

But you still bought the core set. So you contributed to the insane numbers that the first three books of 4E made, which is exactly my point. And it doesn't matter that you might not buy the core set of 5E... because there's going to be someone else who will step in to take your place, buying the core books and driving their sales through the roof.

 

[Mistwell]

Repeatedly we've heard from existing WOTC employees that WOTC doesn't even think about Paizo and doesn't consider them competition. We've heard similar comments from ex-WOTC employees, and even from Paizo employees who used to work for WOTC. And yet, many on the boards insist WOTC is worried about the competition of Paizo, and that they should be, and that WOTC makes decisions based on the things Paizo does.

It would be no surprise at all to me to hear the reverse is also true.

I genuinely think both companies consider the other company simply another game company, they probably have friends in the other company, and probably think the other company puts out some cool products and has some talented people, and that's about where it ends. All the rest is just stuff us people on message boards like to war about.

But that makes for boring threads...

 

[DEFCON 1]

I guess my point is that I don't think it's unfair to call them out on the fact that maybe they shouldn't have established that as a benchmark for the last edition.

Well, no it isn't unfair to call them out... but from what I got from your statement, it wasn't to chastise them for what they said about 4E, but to say what they needed to do for 5E. You said they need to create a game that lasts 10 years so that people didn't feel like they've wasted their money buying it. Which would be true if there was any evidence to suggest that people won't buy a new game five year earlier than that... but thus far that has not happened. Plenty of people will buy a new game even though its only been five years since the previous one (as they did for 3.5 and 4E), and they'll buy it in much greater numbers than the other books they would have been sold otherwise supplementing the last edition.

Individual people might not like "having to buy" a new set of books (which isn't even actually true, because no one's forcing them to do it)... but just because some players aren't going to do it, doesn't mean there aren't plenty of people to replace them, and thus the amount of sales of a new D&D edition's books will remain incredibly high.

If/when those numbers drop off (and who knows, maybe you're right and 5E is that edition, although I personally doubt it)... maybe the D&D department won't do a new edition because they can't get a green light from WotC to do so. But I have a hard time imagining that happening any time soon. People like buying and playing new games. And just because the game they buy has the same name on it as one they bought five years earlier, doesn't mean it's not going to be a new experience with a new bunch of people in new situations. So why not? And that's what WotC and their fiscal year-to-date is banking on.

 

[Mistwell]

Seeing the ad on this website inspired me to bring it up in this thread. It looks as if Green Ronin Publishing is printing things that are Pathfinder compatible such as the "Advanced Beastiary". This tells me that other companies on board with Pathfinder and are embracing it.

Well Green Ronin is Chris Pramas, who has done lots of work with Paizo over the years and is on the Emerald Spire design team.

 

[Starfox]

Well, no it isn't unfair to call them out... but from what I got from your statement, it wasn't to chastise them for what they said about 4E, but to say what they needed to do for 5E. You said they need to create a game that lasts 10 years so that people didn't feel like they've wasted their money buying it. Which would be true if there was any evidence to suggest that people won't buy a new game five year earlier than that... but thus far that has not happened.

Problem is, each time they do this, they lower the value of the brand. Soon the brand value is gone.

 

[Morrus]

Problem is, each time they do this, they lower the value of the brand. Soon the brand value is gone.

As far as I'm aware the D&D brand is doing fantastically. What, with all the boardgames and comics and novels and studios fighting over the rights to make movies... the brand is fine. The question isn't how well will the brand do, it's how well will the new RPG do.

 

[Scrivener of Doom]

As far as I'm aware the D&D brand is doing fantastically. What, with all the boardgames and comics and novels and studios fighting over the rights to make movies... the brand is fine. The question isn't how well will the brand do, it's how well will the new RPG do.

There's a certain irony that at the time WotC (or Hasbro) seems to have its handle on the brand (including a fake Lego release), the tabletop game that it is built on is in hibernation.

 

[ShinHakkaider]

But you still bought the core set. So you contributed to the insane numbers that the first three books of 4E made, which is exactly my point.

True. This was back when myself and bunches of others still had faith in the RPG portion of the brand.

And it doesn't matter that you might not buy the core set of 5E... because there's going to be someone else who will step in to take your place, buying the core books and driving their sales through the roof.

It may not matter that I alone wont buy the core set of 5E. You're right. But there are a fair amount of people who are probably not going to buy / support 5E. People who are perfectly fine and contented to play whatever games that they're playing at present. Plenty of people were pushed away by 4E for whatever reason and if they are playing older editions via OSR or complete other games like Savage Worlds or FATE theyre going to keep playing those games and not even blink at 5E.

I'm sorry I don't think D&D as an RPG is anywhere near as dominant as it was during the heyday of 3x.

 

[DEFCON 1]

But there are a fair amount of people who are probably not going to buy / support 5E. People who are perfectly fine and contented to play whatever games that they're playing at present.

You're speaking as though this is a new phenomenon though. But it's not. 2E players acted this way when 3E was released. 3E players acted this way when 3.5 was released. 3.5 players acted this way when 4E was released. And in every case... those core sets of books SOLD.

You and your brethren not playing 5E is not a new concern. You aren't special.