Pathfinder 1E I get the feeling Paizo isn't worried about Wizards of the Coast.

[DEFCON 1]

There's a certain irony that at the time WotC (or Hasbro) seems to have its handle on the brand (including a fake Lego release), the tabletop game that it is built on is in hibernation.

I think the stronger point is that the D&D brand is so strong that it can easily survive six months of RPG hibernation.

But hibernation isn't even the right word anyway. The 4E products are still on the shelves. People are still playing the game and occasionally buying the game. Just because there isn't a "new shiny" on the shelf the next time a player walks into the Barnes & Noble games section doesn't mean the game is dead. And for a great many players... if there isn't a brand-new "Draconomicon 2" on the shelf in March, maybe one of those other six or seven 4E books they haven't bought yet will be an adequate replacement purchase.

 

[ShinHakkaider]

You're speaking as though this is a new phenomenon though. But it's not. 2E players acted this way when 3E was released. 3E players acted this way when 3.5 was released. 3.5 players acted this way when 4E was released. And in every case... those core sets of books SOLD.

You and your brethren not playing 5E is not a new concern. You aren't special.

I know I'm not special.
I also know that it's not a new phenomenon. Youre not talking to someone who started playing RPG's with 3rd Edition. I've been around at least since 82 so I know that the D&D faithful usually blindly follow the game from edition to edition. I WAS ONE OF THEM.

I know that the game is going to sell. Because people are still going to blindly buy a D&D RPG as long as it has D&D on it.

What I'm saying is that there will be fewer of those blind followers now that there are a great deal of other options than there were before. I'm saying that those who felt burned by the transition between 3x and 4x may have weaned themselves off of the WOTC teat and are happy playing in newer greener pastures. What I'm saying is where are these new people who are going to replace me coming from and more improtantly ARE THEY GOING TO STAY. Because I saw this same thing touted for 4E when it came out and at the beginning at the D&D meetup here in NYC it was TEEMING with new 4E players.

Several months later? it was down to about 2-3 tables from 7-8. By the time I started running my Pathfinder game it had dropped even more. Which brings us to probably why we're even talking about 5E to begin with. So again where are these new people coming from and if the goal is to draw back older lapsed players who have been playing OSR versions of 1E and 2E what does 5E offer them OTHER than the fact that they get to play a game with the D&D stamp on it? Because that stamp doesn't mean as much as it used to because, well...CHOICES.

What I find really funny about you is that youre saying basically what a bunch of the 4E people were saying on this very forum when 4E came out. Going on about how the hobby/D&D doesn't need people like me because we'll be replaced by new people wanting to play the game.

So we left and played other games.

And here you are with 5E.

 

[DEFCON 1]

So we left and played other games.

And here you are with 5E.

And my point was that we were going to get 5E regardless.

New core books sell exponentially more than supplements. Even to popular games.

3.0 was perhaps the most popular version of D&D ever produced. And yet, in five years time they blew through all their supplemental books such that the only way to make something that sold in viable numbers was to release the 3.5 core books. And guess what? THEY SOLD. In much greater numbers than whatever other 3.0 supplement they would have made. And then on top of that... they started re-doing all their original first line of supplements, this time for the 3.5 version... and those sold better than any third or fourth level 3.0 supplement they would have produced.

So it doesn't matter if they "stay" or not. I don't think WotC CARES if people stay with any particular edition. All that matters is that they sell the most amount of SOME PRODUCT they can. And if that product is a new edition of the game every 5 years, or three years, or every year... they will make it and sell it. Even if many gamers choose not to buy them.

Because someone else always does.

 

[DaveMage]

What I find really funny about you is that youre saying basically what a bunch of the 4E people were saying on this very forum when 4E came out. Going on about how the hobby/D&D doesn't need people like me because we'll be replaced by new people wanting to play the game.

So we left and played other games.

And here you are with 5E.

Yes, that does sound familiar.

It mattered this time.

 

[Mistwell]

I know I'm not special.
I also know that it's not a new phenomenon. Youre not talking to someone who started playing RPG's with 3rd Edition. I've been around at least since 82 so I know that the D&D faithful usually blindly follow the game from edition to edition. I WAS ONE OF THEM.

I know that the game is going to sell. Because people are still going to blindly buy a D&D RPG as long as it has D&D on it.

What I'm saying is that there will be fewer of those blind followers now that there are a great deal of other options than there were before. I'm saying that those who felt burned by the transition between 3x and 4x may have weaned themselves off of the WOTC teat and are happy playing in newer greener pastures. What I'm saying is where are these new people who are going to replace me coming from and more improtantly ARE THEY GOING TO STAY. Because I saw this same thing touted for 4E when it came out and at the beginning at the D&D meetup here in NYC it was TEEMING with new 4E players.

Several months later? it was down to about 2-3 tables from 7-8. By the time I started running my Pathfinder game it had dropped even more. Which brings us to probably why we're even talking about 5E to begin with. So again where are these new people coming from and if the goal is to draw back older lapsed players who have been playing OSR versions of 1E and 2E what does 5E offer them OTHER than the fact that they get to play a game with the D&D stamp on it? Because that stamp doesn't mean as much as it used to because, well...CHOICES.

What I find really funny about you is that youre saying basically what a bunch of the 4E people were saying on this very forum when 4E came out. Going on about how the hobby/D&D doesn't need people like me because we'll be replaced by new people wanting to play the game.

So we left and played other games.

And here you are with 5E.

All the data seems to indicate that at least roughly the same number of people plan to buy the 5e core books, as bought the 4e core books, on initial release. All the polls done, when compared to the same polls from just before 4e, seem to be reading almost exactly the same levels of interest and intents to buy.

And the initial release of 4e core books did better than even the initial release of 3e core books, which itself sold strong. So, I think it's likely the launch of 5e will go very well in terms of sales, just as the launch of 4e went well in terms of initial sales, and there do not seem to be a disproportionate number of people so burnt by the events of 4e and tantalized by the prospects of other RPGs to deter a strong initial launch.

But after that? That all comes down to how good or bad 5e is. If it's a good game, it will continue to sell strong. If it's a bad game, it won't. That's I think the size of it.

 

[Thotas]

Personallly, am I going to buy the 5e core books? Absolutely, for the same reason I got the 4e ones -- simple curiosity. I liked 3e, haven't had a chance to play Pathfinder but I think it looks even better than 3e. I got the initial releases of 4e because I wanted to know what it is. I wasn't crazy about it, but I suppose it is something I'd play if that was the only group I could find. I'm guessing that there were a lot of others like me, and I'm guessing that there will be a lot of people who, like me, will go through that all over again with 5e.

As for Paizo, I can't speak for them, but if I were in their position? Nothing I can do about it right now, we'll see what we can do when the time comes. Or even if we have to do something. Sure, the core will sell like crazy, but it's only afterward that it could pose a problem, and if 5e sells well in a way that grows the hobby rather than competing with us, a successful launch may help out both in the long run.

 

[Herschel]

Well I have been a customer since 1985 and I really hate to sit out two editions in a row.

*shrugs*

Gee, I've been a customer since 1980, all but skipped buying 3E material, and bought a boatload of 4E.

Maybe you just need some of this.

 

[Herschel]

D&D has much more to fear from Hasbro than it ever will from Paizo. Not because the owners of WotC are necessarily malicious in any sense, but just because they're so big and D&D so small - Hasbro could crush D&D underfoot in a casual reorganisation and completely fail to notice.

Exactly. Paizo can carve out a very nice niche with numbers that are completely unacceptable to WotC/Hasbro, and they do, good for them.

 

[Herschel]

WotC has had the same attitude towards 4e as it did for 3e when 3e was around. WotC's attitude's on what it's doing hadn't changed...though perhaps players perceptions had.

Now whether that is a cocky attitude or something else, is probably up for debate, but WotC's attitudes basically were the same, people's perceptions of how to interpret those attitudes are what changed FOR SOME people.

This, but beliefs are rarely changed by facts in the eyes of zealots.

 

[Herschel]

You're speaking as though this is a new phenomenon though. But it's not. 2E players acted this way when 3E was released. 3E players acted this way when 3.5 was released. 3.5 players acted this way when 4E was released. And in every case... those core sets of books SOLD.

You and your brethren not playing 5E is not a new concern. You aren't special.

Must.....spread....xp.....

You did miss the ugly 1E to 2E transition though.