I got kicked out of my group!

fusangite said:
It's not necessarily a problem most of the time. People are just different from one another and may not fit together in a game. There are way too many tastes out there in terms of both game and social dynamics to start attributing incompatibility to flaws in people.
In which case, there's no harm in simply telling the ousted person: "We just have different styles of play, and don't fit together in a game."

It's kind of like when a girl you're dating wants to break up with you. Sure, she could fake her own death or tell you that her employer is making her relocate to Outer Mongolia, but wouldn't you rather hear the truth? Is it "rude" of her to tell you that you two just aren't a match when there are these other options available? :)
 

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I've never been kicked out of a gameing group, save for once. And really, that was for the better as the GM had a real hard-on for deprotagonizing the PCs when he had a bad day (i.e., he'd take out his daily frustrations on the PCs, effectively ruining the game session for everybody else). Actually, I got kicked out for finally saying something about this, and two other players subsequently left with me of their own volition.
 

Aeson said:
I am getting bored with the kill all but one or two then torture to get info. This is often done by "good" characters.

The group I just had disintegrate had a player like that. It wasn't so bad when I was pc'ing a LE wizard, and he a fighter of indeterminate alignment (I never asked). But when I took over as DM and he decided to play a LG Dwarven Fighter/Cleric I should have known I was in for trouble. The whole mess came to a head when I told problem player that his alignment had shifted to Lawful Evil, after a series of very unethical actions against the characters own family, and an attempt to use his priestly magic to avoid legal prosecution. (the arguement was that since he was a priest of a LG god, he would not be able to use his priestly magic if he had in fact done the evil act of which he was accused)

The group consisted of myself, problem player, his wife, a friend of theirs, and the guy who had originally brought us all together (the original DM). Other guy, and I were informed by email, approximately 3 days before our next scheduled session, that they (ie everyone but us) had decided to discontinue the campaign to concentrate on another game. No invite to this new game was included. After I calmed down a bit (i found his one sentance, no explanation, no prior indication of displeasure, dismissal kind of insulting), I replied to the dismissal, politely asking for a bit of explanation. I also invited other guy (who had gotten the boot presumably because he didnt argue with me in problem player's favor) to the game I DM for my girlfriend and kids.
 

Peter Gibbons said:
In which case, there's no harm in simply telling the ousted person: "We just have different styles of play, and don't fit together in a game."
Usually not. But sometimes things end up being unnecessarily awkward and uncomfortable when this happens. I would never do this but sometimes, people might say things like "just give me another chance." What does one do then? Being polite entials telling minor lies. I like polite society.
It's kind of like when a girl you're dating wants to break up with you. Sure, she could fake her own death or tell you that her employer is making her relocate to Outer Mongolia, but wouldn't you rather hear the truth? Is it "rude" of her to tell you that you two just aren't a match when there are these other options available? :)
Perhaps the smiley indicates that you're already acknowledging that these situations are not really comparable. However, there's a reason "It's not you; it's me" is such a popular line.
 


Peter Gibbons said:
In which case, there's no harm in simply telling the ousted person: "We just have different styles of play, and don't fit together in a game."

You'd think so. I tried to be polite and tell a couple that due to personality conflicts, it just wasn't working out.

I got email bombed by the female of the couple about what a dick I was and how it's all my existing players' fault (who I had been playing with for years before they were added to the group).

Still, I agree with you on your stance about honesty being the best policy. I think the purpose of lying about such things is primarily to protect the person telling the lie from the awkwardness of confrontation. But just because it's awkward doesn't mean that it justifies lying. It's more awkward if you get caught in the lie and creates more annoyance the next time you cast about for players and the same person responds, or tells people that might have played in your group that you aren't playing anymore, etc.
 

Psion said:
You'd think so. I tried to be polite and tell a couple that due to personality conflicts, it just wasn't working out.

I got email bombed by the female of the couple about what a dick I was and how it's all my existing players' fault (who I had been playing with for years before they were added to the group).

Just as a side note, I've had to drop players who've been playing for years when they refused to accept that new people were you know, joining the group after years of it being a few people and having some of those people drop. It was like when Butters was replacing Kenny on South Park. People just couldn't get out X and Y being gone and bringing in "gasp" strangers or all things...
 

It's my experience that if people have a notion in their heads they won't let a little thing like hard evidence or reality change their minds. Some people simply cannot be reasoned with.

There was an earlier thread about bad player horror stories, or something like that. I posted a long narrative about one guy who was an absolute Richard Head. Well, what I didn't mention in that long sad tale was, in the wake of his and his future wife's departure from the group, our gaming group suffered a general breakdown due to a further series of unfortunate events.

-One guy moved to NYC
-One guy came down with a medical condition (palsy) and decided to withdraw indefinitely
-I moved 55 miles away from my old locale, and three gamers decided it simply wasn't worth it to drive the extra distance, and pulled out.

One of our surviving gamers, let's call him Fnerky McFnerkFace, who DMed his own group in the past, said that his old group was looking for a game (since he decided to stop DMing for a while and just play). So, just like that, I inherited five replacement players! Yay! Problem solved!

Unfortunately, I inherited their issues too! Female A didn't get along with Female B, since both of them had been or were on the verge of, being involved with Fnerky. Female A eventually departed the group, especially after my wife and I basically took Female B's side. Some of us were also troubled by Female A's tendency to wear skirts and no underwear, as well as her practice of flirting with one of her fellow gamers (the guy was married, and his wife was preggers).

Female B met a fellow gaming geek, they began dating, and he soon joined our group. Things went swimmingly for about a year, and, other than the fact that I was out of work at the time, life was good. My wife and I even wound up hanging out with Female B and her boyfriend, doing the non-gaming social stuff like dinner and movies.

Then the problems hit. My wife and I had the nerve to lose a significant amount of weight, which seemed to tick off Female B, who seemed mystified that she didn't lose weight when she was cheating on all the diets she tried. Then the complaints began about my DM style, and how they didn't like how things were run. Then the complaints of favoritism towards my wife and kids began.

One guy complained that my wife's Shadowdancer could do more than his Shadowdancer. And that's true. But it may have had more to do with the fact that my wife's Shadowdancer is of a significantly high level, and he was a mere 1st level. Female B's boyfriend (let's call him Earache) complained that my wife's character did too much in one round, conveniently forgetting his own "I roll a Ride check, then a Knowledge check, then take out my weapon and get one attack on the enemy" maneuvers.

It was almost as if people were looking for things to complain about, even if they had to skew the facts. I began to understand why Fnerky stopped DMing. Then Fnerky himself joined in on the criticisms. But Female B seemed to still be the driving force behind it all. At one point I said "Well, maybe my DM style just isn't for everyone.", to which she said "Oh, so what you're saying is that it's 'my way or the highway' huh?" It was almost as if she was determined to put the worst spin on everything I said or did.

I acknowledged that there were some things I did that could be construed as tough, and that I wasn't always the easiest person to complain to. I was willing to compromise and meet them halfway, so I began a dialogue with Fnerky and Earache, and actually made a lot of progress. It seemed that we would arrive at an agreement, and the group would be saved. I would be making some big compromises, some of them against my better judgement, but whatever. If it brought peace and kept things going, I could quietly do it.

Then suddenly, and I mean literally overnight, it all went to Hell. I got a letter saying from Earache saying that I was being unreasonable and inflexible, and that the DM-player trust was irrevocably broken. I mean, this came totally out of the blue. My wife and my "Whipped Sense" began tingling.... ;)

Fnerky, in the meantime, managed to twist a lot of my words to Female B and Earache. He has this amazing capacity to not quite get what you're saying, as well as the inability to accurately recall what was said. He had also told me that he had only recently gotten back into Female B's good graces (she's one of these easily offended, perpetual victim types who don't forgive easily), and he didn't want to alienate her again, so he couldn't stick up for me. The timing was especially crucial for Fnerky, since he lived out of state and wanted to move back here, and would probably be asking the Couple From Hell if he could crash with them while looking for a job and a place to stay.

Finally, one day, Fnerky said I could call him and vent a bit, perhaps even see if there could still be a solution. So, I called him one morning, and he said that he'd call me back in about 5 minutes, because he wanted to move to a different phone or something. So he did, we talked, I vented. Eventually, Female B's blog (as well as emails from Earache) showed this AMAZING ability to quote me directly from my phone conversation. Now, Fnerky had asked me if it would be okay if he told the Couple From Hell about the gist of our talk, and I said 'sure'. But this....this was uncanny. It was almost as if Earache or Female B had been in the same room during the talk. Or were listening somehow. Their ability to recall what I said was nothing short of startling and impressive.

Hmmm...let's see. I call him. He tells me he'll call me back in about 5 minutes. Hmmm. How does 3-way calling work again? Hmmm. Interestingly, this hypothesis was brought to my attention, rather than something I came up with on my own.

It was just an ugly, ugly situation all around. When the dust finally settled, we basically washed our hands of the Couple From Hell. Fnerky's credibility is shot and we refuse to speak to him either. In my wife and my book, Fnerky is worse than the Couple From Hell...at least we knew where the Couple stood. Fnerky kept putting on his second face, you know?The other two gamers Fnerky brought in left quietly, one because he was Fnerky's pal, the other because he decided he was going to cut back on gaming anyway, and this was a good point to begin doing that.

Interestingly, two of our departed veteran gamers returned once they realized that Fnerky and comany had left. We rebuilt the group using people with less emotional baggage, and I'm delighted to say that we have a healthy, robust gaming group with 11 players and myself. :)

But what that whole unnecessary ugly situation came down to was a fundamental difference in playing styles between a DM and a vocal percentage of players in the group. This should've played out as a "Let's agree to disagree, and part in a civil fashion" resolution. But no. Some people enjoy being victims...it gives them a sense of entitlement. So they make a big fuss, then withdraw, and leave the emotional/social equivalent of a scorched earth policy in their wake.

Suffice to say, there's now a permanent ban on the Couple From Hell and Fnerky from our group. Even if miracles happened and we all somehow began speaking again, I would never game with them again.

Oh, and as a side note, apparently Fnerky has run afoul of Female B, and is back on her crap list. :p
 

StupidSmurf: *blink* Dag. I thought my players carried extra luggage. *bows deeply* Impressive. Most impressive. You handled that better than I would have.
 

Peter Gibbons said:
In which case, there's no harm in simply telling the ousted person: "We just have different styles of play, and don't fit together in a game."

It's kind of like when a girl you're dating wants to break up with you. Sure, she could fake her own death or tell you that her employer is making her relocate to Outer Mongolia, but wouldn't you rather hear the truth? Is it "rude" of her to tell you that you two just aren't a match when there are these other options available? :)

It's not you, it's me.

The last time I broke up with a girl I don't remember giving her a reason (4 years ago). I hope I was nice about it. :uhoh:
 

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