I hate death saves. Propose your solution.

[GMMichael]

Why not keep the existing rule that any damage is an automatic fail?

I'd say it's easier to keep track of how much damage you take while down than to keep track of the turns in which you took damage. Because sequence matters with death saves - you have to get your successes before your fails. So you'd have to record a list of round results (didn't take damage, didn't take damage, took damage, didn't take...) in order to faithfully perform the death saves. That's versus just summing up damage, which doesn't require a list.

So the obvious question: which is more harmful to survival, automatically failing saves, or taking a potentially debilitating penalty to them?

Or: which is more true to how you want to handle downed characters?

 

[schnee]

I'd say it's easier to keep track of how much damage you take while down than to keep track of the turns in which you took damage. Because sequence matters with death saves - you have to get your successes before your fails. So you'd have to record a list of round results (didn't take damage, didn't take damage, took damage, didn't take...) in order to faithfully perform the death saves. That's versus just summing up damage, which doesn't require a list.

So the obvious question: which is more harmful to survival, automatically failing saves, or taking a potentially debilitating penalty to them?

Or: which is more true to how you want to handle downed characters?

Ah, maybe I'm misunderstanding you here, but I'm not the original poster, I just proposed an idea that I thought would head off the major flaw with the current rules as I see it at my table.

I want to dissuade meta thinking that players use to manipulate the action economy that kills drama. I personally don't want to change the 5e death mechanics, I think are quite good at providing just enough cushion for players who are just unlucky on rolling, while providing just enough rope for characters that are foolhardy.

I think your method is more lethal, which I personally wouldn't want. (The OP might).

 

[Dispater]

What i dont like about 5e mechanics is that 0hp - instant unconcious. Id like my dying heroes to make desperate last actions like sipping a potion, maybe trying to crawl out of danger, make a last lunge or use a spell (on successful ability checks). My dying mechanics alllow this, amid some severe penalties. Dying should not be a breeze or a binary yes/no, it should be a nailbiting, edge of seat kind of thing

 

[Staccat0]

Not at all what OP is asking, but I’ve considered permanently filling in a failed death save bubble and calling it a “wound”

So players can only drop to 0hp 3 times.

Maybe you can heal wounds by resting for a week.

 

[OB1]

[MENTION=6795602]FrogReaver[/MENTION] My house rule for this is that you no longer drop unconscious at 0 HP. Instead, players roll a death save when they reach 0 HP or take damage while at 0 HP, gaining a level of exhaustion on a failure (I also added a few exhaustion levels and fiddled with the order, and allow spending half your level in hit dice after a short or long rest to remove a level of exhaustion, but won't get into those details here). I don't think the you like how this creates a "death spiral", but for me, it's encouragement to stay away from 0 HP in the first place and allows for cinematic moments when they do.

Looking at some of the suggestions and feedback in the thread, another solution came to mind. Curious as to your thoughts on this frogreaver.

When you reach 0HP or take damage while at 0 HP, make a death saving throw. On a success, you are unconscious and stable at 0 HP, awaking with 1 HP in 1d4 hours if not otherwise healed. On a failure, you die. However, PCs are not like regular folk. Whether touched by the gods or just plain lucky, players have a knack for not dying when others do. A PC begins their career with three Plot Armor Points. Whenever a PC fails a death saving throw, they can spend a Plot Armor Point to choose to succeed instead. When they do, they also have advantage on any additional Death Saves for the next minute. No magic or divine intervention can ever replace these points, not even Wish. Once a player has used up this special resource, it's gone forever.

My thinking is this makes death saves more dramatic, as the stakes are higher right from the first roll. At the same time the Plot Armor Points allows low level PCs to get around some bad luck in the levels before resurrection becomes an option, while also making resurrection magic more essential at higher levels.

 

[MoonSong]

So I hate death saves and want death to occur at 0 hp. Propose your solutions. Critique mine. Have fun.

My current favorite is level 1 hp = 2*MaxClassHP + Con Mod. Every level after that works as normal. No death saves. Die at 0 hp.

Sorry, Haven't caught with the full thread yet, so feel free to ignore me if something similar has come up. I'll take one page out of my heartbreaker:

Hit points.- At first level you gain your class hit dice + you Constitution score in hit points. If your hit points drop below your constitution score, you fall unconscious. If your hit points reach 0, you die. You can avoid falling unconscious by making a charisma save (DC 11) at the beginning of each round, the DC raises by 1 each time you make the save and each time you take damage. If you receive any healing while in this state, you fall unconscious. If the number of times you make this save exceeds you Constitution Bonus, you cannot receive any healing anymore and you die when the combat ends.

 

[Laurefindel]

Super simple death save rule: (TL;DR: check for changes to the RaW in bold italic. )

When you drop to 0 hit points, you either die outright or fall unconscious, as explained in the following sections.
Instant Death
Massive damage can kill you instantly. When damage reduces you to 0 hit points and there is damage remaining, you die if the remaining damage equals or exceeds your hit point maximum.
Falling Unconscious
If damage reduces you to 0 hit points and fails to kill you, you fall unconscious (see appendix A). This unconsciousness ends if you regain any hit points.
Death Saving Throws
Whenever you start your turn with 0 hit points, you must make a special saving throw, called a death saving throw, to determine whether you die or hang onto life. Unlike other saving throws, this one isn’t tied to any ability score. You are in the hands of fate now, aided only by spells and features that improve your chances of succeeding on a saving throw. Roll a d20: If the roll is 10 or higher, you succeed and become stable. Otherwise, you fail and die. Rolling 1 or 20: When you make a death saving throw and roll a 1 on the d20, you are really really deader than dead. If you roll a 20 on the d20, you regain 1 hit point. Damage at 0 Hit Points: If you take any damage while you have 0 hit points, you suffer instant death.

It’s fast and simple, and allows for the “left for dead” trope. If you add or gain an exhaustion level to the damage at 0 hit point clause, you can also die of extreme heat/cold .

Variant: Ye Olde System Shock
Instead of a death save, you roll a good old system shock, OD&D style, with percentile dice for nostalgia sake. Your system shock value is 40% + your CON score x3 (max 99%). You must roll under your system shock value to become stable, otherwise you’re dead.
This makes the “death save” more survivable. Perhaps too much, so…

Variant: Constitution save
Instead of a death save, you roll a CON save, DC = 10 or half the damage you take, whichever is higher.
This makes CON save proficient classes more survivable and death by critical hit harder to survive

[edit] ...or what OB1 said two posts above...

 

[Tony Vargas]

It’s fast and simple, and allows for the “left for dead” trope.

cool

Not laughing at your proposal, BTW, which looks like brutal fun, but with bits like:

roll a 1 on the d20, you are really really deader than dead

Variant: Ye Olde System Shock..

with percentile dice for nostalgia sake.

And, of course, your handle.

 

[Dispater]

Not at all what OP is asking, but I’ve considered permanently filling in a failed death save bubble and calling it a “wound”

So players can only drop to 0hp 3 times.

Maybe you can heal wounds by resting for a week.

Interesting but then you need some penalties associated with wounds, sort of on the level of exhaustion, or else it doesnt really have any flair.

 

[Staccat0]

Interesting but then you need some penalties associated with wounds, sort of on the level of exhaustion, or else it doesnt really have any flair.

At that point I would probably just play Into the Odd.