D&D 5E I hate expertise dice as a universal mechanic.

[howandwhy99]

I admit to liking the concepts behind expertise dice design, but I don't really care for the design itself. Forgive the word, but it's too metagamey for me to hide behind the screen for the players to use those options without their knowledge.

As to rogue abilities overlapping other classes, I think that's sort of the point. I think every class gets combat abilities, but the fighter is the best. Every class has the ability to use magic too and heal and sneak around and disarm traps or befriend allies or whatever. It's just those classes that are the experts in those fields are the experts.

Classes need some overlap anyways to make them compatible with each other when characters of different classes form a single group. It allows not only common ground and joint experience, but shared objectives - even if those objectives are weighted differently for different classes and characters. It's okay to have different priorities from others and to work on multiple goals while still gaining something out of it when an ally succeeds in theirs.

 

[Remathilis]

I'd like to see each of the group classes (and extended class-groups) have a unique mechanic. Base it on channel divinity for clerics, expertise dice for fighters, Vancian casting/spell slots for wizards, and something else (maybe skill-based?) for rogues.

Fighters, in particular, are always at risk of having their schtick stepped on and stolen by other classes.

I'm not really afraid of rogue's borrowing expertise dice. Fighters aren't in fear of being overshadowed by rogues.

If paladins, barbarians, and rangers get CS dice along with spells and goodies, we'll talk...

 

[bbjore]

Expertise Dice works well as a shared power source mechanic, just like spells work well as a shared arcane mechanic. It's nice to have some overlap in rules between classes, especially those that have a similar approach. Feats work for multiple classes, new material helps multiple classes...

The key is to make each classes implementation unique. Should rogues and fighters use the same amount and kind of die? Probably not. Should maneuvers be similar, no? Maneuvers should be designed to reinforce the archetype and their approach. I'm not saying the rogue has to have ED, there are other good options. But it's not terrible for them to work on a similar framework, since that framework does a good job of modeling a non-spell approach to skill and success.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

I f they were slightly diffrent than each other then it would feel better. If they had more movement tricks it would play better, and both fighter and rouge need fine tuneiing.


Imagin if the rouge got 1d6 per 2 levels for the first 10 levels, keep skill mastry as is, take the second use of sneak attack off (so only with advantage) then give them more movement based ways to gain advantage...

Acrobatic trick, spend half your expertise dice to move up to your speed, if you move atleast half your move without being damaged gain advantage against anyone you end adjacent to.

Sly flurish: instead of moveing spend half your expertise dice to make an apposed dex VS wis contest, you have advantage on your next attack.

Dirty fighting: when both you and an ally are both attacking the same target this turn you may spen dexpertise dice to strike an exposed target, roll all your expertise dice but only take the highest, and apply it to both attack anddamage

 

[ZombieRoboNinja]

What if a level 5 rogue got like 10d6 dice per encounter, to represent resourcefulness and luck or some such?

Blow a bunch with one Sneak Attack or spread em out however you want. Maybe have a rule that you can only use a number of dice equal to your rogue level per round to keep things reasonable.

 

[eprieur]

I'll shamely quote my other post since it's relevant here.

Probably one of the only direction they are going in the latest packet that I like in next is using more expertise dice system. They probably have to redo the rogue nearly completly but I'm sure they can keep expertise dice and make it work.

What I would like is an expantion on the expertise dice ressource system. This could help balance out rogue vs fighter problems while still having something unique for each class. Here it is, probably heavily based on wow but still.

Right now the dice are all regained at the end of the turn. This could be changed using something like:

-Fighters start the fight with 0 ED (experdice dice). The first time they hit with an attack each turn they gain 1 dice. The first time they take damage from an attack each turn they gain 1 dice. They have a maximum of 2 (maybe 3) dices at the begining of the game. You can even call it rage or fury if you want.

-Rogues start the fight with their maximum ED (2-3 dices at lvl 1) and they gain 1 dice at the start or end of their turn. They can unload at the start of the fight then have to wait a bit before being able to unload again. You can even call it energy or something like that.

This ressource system allow the fighter/rogue to pay for maneuvers. One thing it does is make the ED rarer since you don't always get them back at the end of the turn. This also make managing the ressource a bit more strategic.

There are many examples of power/feat/class feature that could be created to support this (alot of design space) (charge feat that give 1 ED if you start the fight with it, berserker option where you go into a rage by spending a bigger amount of ED (say 3+), options that give back ED to rogue on sneak attack kills, etc. I'll leave it at that for now but I'll add other ideas if this get a discussion going.

Thanks again for reading!

 

[Stormonu]

I don't mind if rogues get CS dice, so long as it's made different along the lines that wizards and clerics spellcasting is different.

 

[Bluenose]

Classes shouldn't be defined by having exclusive mechanics. Especially not fighters.

Classes need something unique they can do, but that doesn't have to be delivered by a unique mechanic. How they do something is less significant than what they do.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Right now, the rogue feels like a fighter "light"...

without a real defining mechanic, he feels out of place. He needs something unique, other than having some extra skills.

What I could imagine would be a sneak attack, that allows the rogue to add his crit dice to damage if both advantage dice hit, or an overaching mechanic, that allows anyone to deal backstab damage when attacking from shadows... the rogue is just exceptionally good at exploiting it. Right now, sneaking up as a rogue feels pretty bad...

 

[B.T.]

Right now, the rogue feels like a fighter "light"...

My thoughts exactly.