"I hate math"

[Aust Diamondew]

Personally I like options (why when I get the chance to play I generally play either fighters or spellcasters) and I can do complex addition, subtraction and some multiplication (usually only about 3 digits) and division in my head so I don't have much trouble with math.

Unfortunatley most of my players aren't too good at math but they don't have much of a problem with d&d at high levels (paticuarly since I bought a cheap caculator for the group )
As for spells just have a PHB handy for each caster and spells aren't difficult to reference.

 

[Ourph]

As far as I can tell, you shouldn't need more than four; normal, flat-footed, touch, both. Or are you talking about adding spells to the picture? If so that seems like just making work for yourself; precalculate one or two really common ones, sure, but surely you can add a one-digit number to your AC on the fly when you cast a defensive spell? Use sticky notes or something if memory is the problem.

Right, normal, flat-footed, touch, both, incorporeal touch are the main 5.
So I have 5 for no spells.
5 for Mage Armor (only).
5 for Shield (only).
5 for Cat's Grace (only).
5 for Protection from Evil (only).
5 for Improved Invisibility (only).
Then we go into the permutations for multiple spells.
Mage Armor + Shield
Mage Armor + Cat's Grace
Mage Armor + Protection from Evil
etc. etc.

So even after eliminating the duplicates (for example, Shield only requires normal and flat-footed since it applies vs. touch attacks and incorporeal touch attacks) you're still left with a LOT of permutations.

So yeah, I was making a lot of work for myself (which I quickly realized). I now do something along the lines of what you suggested. I keep a small notepad with me at the table and write down all the defensive/buff spells I cast, my modified stats and the duration. It's still a heck of a lot of work compared to playing, for example, Warhammer (which IMO is just as good in the "options" department).

I can understand how a lot of people wouldn't mind or would even like that level of detail and complexity. Just saying that I tend to share the original poster's POV that there's a lot of math in 3e play and that for me it sometimes gets in the way of just relaxing and having fun with the game.

 

[Zappo]

I've found that high-level games are slower because of the wider range of options available to the players, not because of the math. What should I cast this round? What special attack should I use? The math is just adding one and two; the time it takes is irrelevant. Personally, I hardly call it math.

The real time is spent in making choices. Some people would point to other systems, such as OD&D, and say that they work faster. I answer: duh, of course. If a fighter can only whack, whack and whack again, it's fairly obvious that the game is faster. The players simply don't have to think. If that's desirable for you, good. Me, I think that a few extra seconds are a fair price for the beautiful complexity of 3E combat.

 

[poilbrun]

On http://www.d20srd.org , I found a Character Status Log pdf. In it are the various modifier that can be applied to various stats. I printed it and fill it by hand, but if you're using a computer, it is not very complicated to create a similar-looking spreadsheet, and put a SUM in the total column. Every time a modifier needs to be applied, just enter it in the right column, and get the total. It also helps for stacking rules, since you know you cannot have two numbers in the same column.

 

[JRRNeiklot]

I find it humorous that a lot of folks don't blink at 3es convoluted math, but bitch about Thac0 being too hard to figure.

 

[jmucchiello]

When they players began to have "hot sheets" of four or five pages and I felt more like a stat counter than a DM we quit 3e. I'm interested in seeing what C&C is doing with d20 to make it a simpler game to play, and hopefully DM.

Um, let's see. Um, nope. Can't tell you. NDA. Sorry. But there is something in C&C which should simplify some of this. (Or at least it has the potential to I haven't had a chance to try it yet.)

Our game got up to 12-13th level characters and it was obvious the problems we had were just going to increase as the levels got higher.

Well, I suppose I can say that you probably won't have such high level characters in C&C. But I can't really say why. But I'm thinking you can guess why....

 

[moticon]

Poilbrun - Thanks for the pointer on the status sheet!

That sheet will help my new players out quite a bit. Having a quick sheet to mark seperate bonuses will speed things up, and prevent stacking.

Nice pointer!

Moticon

 

[Joshua Randall]

Attached is a spreadsheet I use as a player. It's a bit more complex than it should be, but basically, I put an X in the yellow column for each effect or spell that applies, and it spits out the AC, attack, and damage in the blue boxes. (Normally I hide the columns that do the actual calculating, which makes the sheet much cleaner.)

I whipped this up in about an hour using my rudimentary knowledge of Excel. It saves me a lot of time during the game, especially when my PCs have several buff spells going.

 

[Driddle]

Actually, this probably falls into two or more separate, albeit related issues: "I hate math," and, "I hate keeping track of numbers." (And maybe, "I hate lots of piddly little sequences of adding and subtracting single-point modifiers.")

I suggest this because I actually enjoy manipulating numbers and playing with math. Maybe not calculus-level stuff anymore, but yeah, I'm on good speaking terms with equations. ... But I truly abhor listening to litanies before and after dice rolls, "I rolled X, plus This for This Modifier, plus That for That Modifier, but he's got coverage, so minus one point here and one point there, and minus X percent because I'm a geek, but I get a bonus because I recited all this crap out loud..." Hate it hate it hate it!

 

[Endur]

"I hate math."

Some possible fixes.
1) Stay in single digit levels(preferably levels 1 -5 to avoid multiple attacks per round).
2) Change the rules. Possible changes include:
a) Don't give any buff spells to PC spellcasters; there is nothing in the rules that says the GM has to make all spells in the PHB available to PC spellcasters.