I have Heroes of Shadows

[Dannager]

Oh, I know that I've always regretted the day when I was forced to buy into 4e and have all those choices in powers when I levelled up. I hated being able to distingish my character from the next! If only they would revert their rather robust rules and choices to the days when our characters were determined by the randomness of 4d6k3 attributes!

What made 4e great was how we could actually build a character that was balanced and fun to play. Not to be given a character sheet and say "Here! Make up a name to put at the top !" I guarantee you that the player that wants to tackle having 2 surges wants more choices than what feat to get every 2.1 levels

When creating a 1st level Essentials character, you can choose (mechanically) its skills, one or two feats, its background benefit, its attribute assignment, its race, and its class. All of these allow you to mechanically distinguish your Essentials character from another Essentials character (and this, of course, totally ignores the non-mechanical choices you can make during character creation). The only difference between Essentials characters' options and normal characters' options is that you make fewer decisions regarding powers (and even that is a false argument, because there's nothing preventing you from ignoring the Essentials build and just picking whatever class power you want at each level where you would gain one).

I think you're making this into a way bigger deal than it actually is, both historically and in contemporary context.

 

[WalterKovacs]

What made 4e great was how we could actually build a character that was balanced and fun to play. Not to be given a character sheet and say "Here! Make up a name to put at the top !"

Just double checked my book, and no, it doesn't say "Zaran can only play vampires from now on". You are still able to play every other class in 4e which still has tons of options.

I guarantee you that the player that wants to tackle having 2 surges wants more choices than what feat to get every 2.1 levels

They have more options.

Every utility level, they can take skill powers in place of their "assigned" utility, they can pick a theme power in it's place, they could use a racial utility (from shade or vryloka) or they can swap it via a multiclass feat.

Their level 3 (and it's replacement at level 17) has a level number, which means it can be power swapped via multiclassing, or a theme encounter power.

Their dailies are all leveled, so multiclass feats or themes can give you replacements.

Your at-wills are level numbered, which means a half-elf could grab any of them, and if you paragon multiclass, you can retrain one out.

Most of those options are available to all (some classes don't get numbered encounter or dailies though), but there are options for customizing a vampire. And of course, there is always the option to pick a different class if customizability is very important.

Anyway, people want spoilers ... maybe start a new thread to talk about people's thoughts on vampires?

 

[Zaran]

When creating a 1st level Essentials character, you can choose (mechanically) its skills, one or two feats, its background benefit, its attribute assignment, its race, and its class. All of these allow you to mechanically distinguish your Essentials character from another Essentials character (and this, of course, totally ignores the non-mechanical choices you can make during character creation). The only difference between Essentials characters' options and normal characters' options is that you make fewer decisions regarding powers (and even that is a false argument, because there's nothing preventing you from ignoring the Essentials build and just picking whatever class power you want at each level where you would gain one).

Except for the fact that there is no normal character class for the Vampire Class. You know, if you guys like what you see then that's cool. Buy the book. This is not why I switched from 3.5 to 4e though and I will NOT be buying thisbook. And when they realize that the 70% of their player base that wants more than Essentials characters they might still have capital enough to dig themselves out their hole.

 

[SFurtwangler]

Found out I have a premier store down the street from my house, so I picked up my own copy today. Thanks again for wetting my appetite.

 

[Neverfate]

Except for the fact that there is no normal character class for the Vampire Class. You know, if you guys like what you see then that's cool. Buy the book. This is not why I switched from 3.5 to 4e though and I will NOT be buying thisbook. And when they realize that the 70% of their player base that wants more than Essentials characters they might still have capital enough to dig themselves out their hole.

I understand your frustrations. I think it's best suited for another thread though. I too have wanted to rant about the reprinting of the Executioner, but I'm gonna wait until the actual release of the book. These are pre-release spoilers thread after all.

 

[gyor]

Thanks for the info. Can you tell me about the Grim Blackguard? Thank you.

The vice alignment restrictions are interesting. I would have expected the fury bg to have more restrictons then the domination blackguard. I wonder what makes domination eviler then Fury. Although Domination can't be choatic evil so some fury bg are more evil.

 

[CelticMutt]

Domination: Unaligned or evil
Fury: Any but lawful good [although 'most' are unaligned]

Huh. I pretty much expected the Domination ones, but Fury allowing Good is kinda surprising.

The level 29 one conjurs duplicates a copy of each enemy in the burst, who attack their originals with a MBA with +4 to hit and damage, then they stick around and deal damage to enemies that are in the space of, or adjacent to, any of the shadow conjurations, which can be cumulative.

Ok, that is awesome.

 

[WalterKovacs]

Thanks for the info. Can you tell me about the Grim Blackguard? Thank you.

The vice alignment restrictions are interesting. I would have expected the fury bg to have more restrictons then the domination blackguard. I wonder what makes domination eviler then Fury. Although Domination can't be choatic evil so some fury bg are more evil.

In terms of the alligments, the way I see it is basically:

Domination screams "lawful evil/lawful neutral". Fury, on the other hand, is more chaotic than necessarily evil. A chaotic good character could be furious (albeit righteous), as well as choatic neutral, chaotic evil, or even neutral evil, etc ... So that fits the appropriate allignments (as they are in 4e anyway).

Grim Blackguard, the paragon path, has the following stuff:

At 11, you get +2 to saving throws, +4 vs. fear. At 16, whenever an adjacent creature drops yourol a d4 to get a Dark Blessing: 10 temp hp, +2 to defenses until EoNT, +1 to attack rols until EoNT, regain CHA mod hp. Action point, encounter, utility and daily are all based on your vice.

Dom - Action point gives power bonus to attack rolls until EoNT equal to number of allies within 2 squares. Encounter powe, burst 1, weakens and gains thp. Utility daily, conjures an altar which gives you and allies a bonus to hit bloodied creatures while near the altar. Daily is a melee attack that deals ongoing damage. If the target ends his next turn adjacent to you or an ally, they don't get to save that turn.

Fury - Action point gives you c/a against all enemies until EoT. Encounter was previewed, but basically let's you make a dazing opportunity attack when attacked in melee until your next turn. Utility daily, conjures an altar that gives you and allies a bonus to damage while near the altar. Daily is a melee attack that dazes (save ends), and while dazed, at the start of each of the targets turns, roll a d6. 1-2, target takes damage, 3-4: target makes a MBA or charge against one of your enemies closest to it, or loses it's action if it can't make any such attack; 5-6: target and any of your enemies adjacent to it take the 1-2 damage AND it does 3-4's effect.

 

[gyor]

In terms of the alligments, the way I see it is basically:

Domination screams "lawful evil/lawful neutral". Fury, on the other hand, is more chaotic than necessarily evil. A chaotic good character could be furious (albeit righteous), as well as choatic neutral, chaotic evil, or even neutral evil, etc ... So that fits the appropriate allignments (as they are in 4e anyway).

Grim Blackguard, the paragon path, has the following stuff:

At 11, you get +2 to saving throws, +4 vs. fear. At 16, whenever an adjacent creature drops yourol a d4 to get a Dark Blessing: 10 temp hp, +2 to defenses until EoNT, +1 to attack rols until EoNT, regain CHA mod hp. Action point, encounter, utility and daily are all based on your vice.

Dom - Action point gives power bonus to attack rolls until EoNT equal to number of allies within 2 squares. Encounter powe, burst 1, weakens and gains thp. Utility daily, conjures an altar which gives you and allies a bonus to hit bloodied creatures while near the altar. Daily is a melee attack that deals ongoing damage. If the target ends his next turn adjacent to you or an ally, they don't get to save that turn.

Fury - Action point gives you c/a against all enemies until EoT. Encounter was previewed, but basically let's you make a dazing opportunity attack when attacked in melee until your next turn. Utility daily, conjures an altar that gives you and allies a bonus to damage while near the altar. Daily is a melee attack that dazes (save ends), and while dazed, at the start of each of the targets turns, roll a d6. 1-2, target takes damage, 3-4: target makes a MBA or charge against one of your enemies closest to it, or loses it's action if it can't make any such attack; 5-6: target and any of your enemies adjacent to it take the 1-2 damage AND it does 3-4's effect.

wow The altar powers sound cool. If the servant of vice counts as an ally then when using the dailies that would be cool time to use it. Ongoing damage with no save if ally is near sounds brutal. It is not hard to make sure an ally is always near. The dom is going to love cunning weapons with all the ongoing damage.

How is the fluff on the vices themselves? Is it good fluff?

 

[Vael]

The Blackguard's design and development mentioned four starting vices, two cut from the book. Does the Blackguard's section tell us what the other vices might be?