D&D 4E I have seen the coming of 4e...

[Wormwood]

I disliked not having the gnome, the bard and the druid in the PHB. I wasn't happy about that.

I couldn't give a tinker's dam about gnomes, bards and druids---having seen only two of those in 30 years.

 

[AZRogue]

I like the gnome in the PHB, myself.




For profiling purposes.

 

[Grabuto138]

This is my opinion completely.

I never, EVER, bought a 3.5 book. Why? Because I already bought 3rd Edition. I was, actually, pretty insulted over 3.5 and my group boycotted it completely. I don't understand why anyone would ever buy something they already own, with just some minor tweaks.

I have lurked for years but don't generally post. The righteous indignation over spending money gets to me a bit, though.

I spend around 14 to 21 hours a month (5:00 to midnight; two or three Sundays a month) with my friends having a good time. I spend additional time reading message boards, discussing the game with friends in person or in email or twiddling with characters.

D&D is one of the greatest bangs for the buck you will get out of any hobby, even assuming you buy pretty much everything they put out. You can pre-order the core collection for around $67. The Player’s Handbook is about $25. Let’s assume you are a fan and you spend $200 a year in books.

You cannot buy Warhammer FB army for $200. I just bought $90 in paint alone.

If you are into video gaming, the “core” costs you $300-ish rather than $70-ish. Each “supplement” costs you $50-ish rather than $30-ish. And you can play for years and years with three D&D books. Try that with $60 worth of Final Fantasy.

If you are into woodworking the table taw is easily two years of your D&D budget. You still don’t have a carpenter’s square, chisels or even wood.

Pity those guys who trick out Honda Civics as a hobby.

My girlfriend spends well over the cost of a PH each month on yoga.

My cigarette bill is greater than one brand new Player’s Handbook a week. The average bar bill is a PH and a DMG.

A movie for two with popcorn and soda is more than the PH.

Know anyone who makes stained glass, collects action figures, refinishes furniture, takes karate lessons or has a subscription to premium cable?

D&D is, in the worst case, very cheap. And that is assuming you buy products as a hobby rather than simply three books for the DM and one book for the players.

Best of all D&D is social unlike most hobbies. Working on the Vespa is fine but I am willing to spend $67 to have some time with my friends, read enworld and look forward to complaining about the next rule’s change.

 

[Piratecat]

Good post -- and welcome!

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

I have lurked for years but don't generally post. The righteous indignation over spending money gets to me a bit, though.

I spend around 14 to 21 hours a month (5:00 to midnight; two or three Sundays a month) with my friends having a good time. I spend additional time reading message boards, discussing the game with friends in person or in email or twiddling with characters.

D&D is one of the greatest bangs for the buck you will get out of any hobby, even assuming you buy pretty much everything they put out. You can pre-order the core collection for around $67. The Player’s Handbook is about $25. Let’s assume you are a fan and you spend $200 a year in books.

You cannot buy Warhammer FB army for $200. I just bought $90 in paint alone.

If you are into video gaming, the “core” costs you $300-ish rather than $70-ish. Each “supplement” costs you $50-ish rather than $30-ish. And you can play for years and years with three D&D books. Try that with $60 worth of Final Fantasy.

If you are into woodworking the table taw is easily two years of your D&D budget. You still don’t have a carpenter’s square, chisels or even wood.

Pity those guys who trick out Honda Civics as a hobby.

My girlfriend spends well over the cost of a PH each month on yoga.

My cigarette bill is greater than one brand new Player’s Handbook a week. The average bar bill is a PH and a DMG.

A movie for two with popcorn and soda is more than the PH.

Know anyone who makes stained glass, collects action figures, refinishes furniture, takes karate lessons or has a subscription to premium cable?

D&D is, in the worst case, very cheap. And that is assuming you buy products as a hobby rather than simply three books for the DM and one book for the players.

Best of all D&D is social unlike most hobbies. Working on the Vespa is fine but I am willing to spend $67 to have some time with my friends, read enworld and look forward to complaining about the next rule’s change.

I need to show this post to my wife...

 

[HeavenShallBurn]

Everybody here probably knows I've been critical of 4e since the beginning. I'm just a critical, overly suspicious sort. Before there wasn't a lot to go on, it was largely supposition based on cryptic statements and hints.

Now that I've seen a significant portion of the mechanical basis of the game. At the very least enough to work out how the basic math of the game functions. I have to say I agree with the OP, the powers and math I'm seeing is very similar to computer games in the relationships between levels, AC, AB, Defenses, etc. And the powers could have been ripped straight from any number of games. I don't have a beef with MMOs in fact I play several, but I play them for very different reasons than I play D&D. What I'm seeing makes this new edition a much bigger break between editions than any previous despite retaining quite a few mechanical similarities.

 

[Incenjucar]

Honestly, considering how precise things are with 4E, it would make a terrible real-time game.

You would never be able to work in half of the mechanics.

An MMO would be a nightmare.

 

[BASHMAN]

Castles and Crusades anyone?

Mike

One thing I think will be very positive from 4E fallout will be an increase in interest in C&C. Long live the Crusade!

 

[Mephistopheles]

Everybody here probably knows I've been critical of 4e since the beginning. I'm just a critical, overly suspicious sort. Before there wasn't a lot to go on, it was largely supposition based on cryptic statements and hints.

Now that I've seen a significant portion of the mechanical basis of the game. At the very least enough to work out how the basic math of the game functions. I have to say I agree with the OP, the powers and math I'm seeing is very similar to computer games in the relationships between levels, AC, AB, Defenses, etc. And the powers could have been ripped straight from any number of games. I don't have a beef with MMOs in fact I play several, but I play them for very different reasons than I play D&D. What I'm seeing makes this new edition a much bigger break between editions than any previous despite retaining quite a few mechanical similarities.

There is a lot of good design in computer games. If WotC designers are inspired by some examples of good design and incorporate them into 4E that's not a bad thing. It obviously may not result in a game to the liking of all existing D&D players but I don't think likening aspects of 4E design to aspects of computer games is necessarily a strike against 4E.

 

[Yair]

Its the rose-tinted blinders of nostalgia that make people decry Lucas for "ruining" (usually another r word goes there) their childhood because Han shoots first

Actually, it's an appreciation of the change in character this act implies

I couldn't care less about nostalgia. I do care about stuff like skeleteons being just as vulnerable to arrows as to a hail of stones, about having to remember lots of "marks", and "conditions", and so on, and about having the same game-experience only with bigger numbers at higher levels.

Still, I can't really judge all of that from the previews. I'm gonna wait for the actual game. I suspect some things will be a problem (managing marks, skeletons being wounded by arrows) while others won't (the game-experience, I suspect, will be markedly different). We'll see.