D&D 5E (2024) I have the DMG. AMA!

[Micah Sweet]

I expect the upcoming supplement will be mostly subclasses and backgrounds, yes. Maybe a little testing the waters with new rules, but not much.

Yup. More player options for our superheroic badasses.

 

[mamba]

I expect the upcoming supplement will be mostly subclasses and backgrounds, yes. Maybe a little testing the waters with new rules, but not much.

they have a backlog of player facing and DM facing material that exists in the 2014 books but not in the 2024 ones yet.

I do not expect to see all of it again (revised or just repeated), but I would be surprised if they threw out all the DM facing material. If anything a ‘of Everything’ book is a great way to add optional / alternative rules in the DM side

 

[tetrasodium]

OK, I have to ask... if your players have decided this, what advice could they possible offer that would force them not to rest?

Happy to answer but need to start out by saying that what they did actually write in the PHB about resting & recovery is the problem that leads to

Spoiler: this

There are significant parts of the mechanics★ that are structured to encourage the adversarial "we(players) don't need to trust or work with you and the rules make it clear" seed to grow & bloom if the GM ever feels the need to cross the line using fiat to restrict the resting or use fiat in a way that makes the choice to let it burn matter.

Telling the GM rulings not rules & to talk to/work with the players while providing the players on the other side of the GM screen RAW written in ways that encourage it gets interpreted as some kind of divine writ is cross purpose with one getting treated as somehow being "more equal" in ways to expect outrage when fiat gets used in ways lowering that to simply equal

★(like rest RAW & SR classes along with no required magic item expectations in monster/encounter math)

 

[Crimson Longinus]

No it wasn’t. There was nothing about this in OD&D or any early editions.

Casters have a lot fewer spell slots than they did in earlier editions, and short rests are a recent edition to the game.

I was, of course, talking about 5e. But 3e in particular was famous for its utterly ludicrous caster dominance. And that 5e was never as bad as that, doesn't mean there was not a problem. We've had countless threads about it on these forums alone.

And yet 5e is by far the most popular edition of the game, so clearly these “complaints” have not negatively impacted people’s enjoyment of the game.

Well, if it was so perfect, then they certainly didn't need to change anything, so these new books are unnecessary!

That it is popular, doesn't mean there were no problem areas, and on some of those problem areas I see the new version making things worse.

Hypothesis: players LIKE feeling like badass superheroes.

Probably. And perhaps that is enough for some. But I say that to a significant portion of people, the battles that are most memorable are the hard fought ones, and constant risk-free overwhelming victory becomes boring.

As pointed out, very few people actually used these rules, and did not report problems. This would be more of a non-problem.

A lot of people did not use these rules, and did report problems. What they should have done in my opinion is opposite of what they did: to make these optional pacing rules more prominent and instruct people better how and why to implement them. Like they would have made perfect sense in this new chapter about pacing.

I believe EN World publishes something of that sort….

Sure. 3rd party does all sort of stuff. That's money WotC won't get. And as 3rd party stuff is far les known, many people do not understand to seek solutions there, so they will not have solution, leading to dissatisfaction.

But like I said before, we could discuss "adventuring day" and related stuff in more depth in this dedicated thread. But I feel it is tiresome how common attitude here seems to be to just reflexively defend everything WotC does, either with downplaying the problems or employing good old Oberoni Fallacy. We are discussing new products, criticism is part of that.

Oh and speaking of stuff I'm worried about, @FitzTheRuke how does magic item creation work, both during downtime and via the bastion? Can the players just basically produce any item they wish, as long as they cover the costs and meet potential level requirements?

 

[Micah Sweet]

So it were better if they reproduced everything?

Not sure what you mean.

I mean, I'll probably get more use out of it than I would with the honor stat or spell points...

To each their own. But new players no longer have any reason to know about the honor stay and spell points, because those options have been removed from the book they will use.

 

[TiQuinn]

Because that's not the way time works?

I’m not trying to simulate real life passage of time. I don’t think most DMs are trying to do that either. Nor do I think it’s necessary. There are games that this does matter for because it is part of the mechanics of the game, such as Shadowdark. But 5e? Nah.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

As I said, being beholden to public shareholders is the problem.

But without those shareholders, there would be no company, and no product.

The only options available are A) a commercial product or B) no product.

 

[TiQuinn]

But without those shareholders, there would be no company, and no product.

The only options available are A) a commercial product or B) no product.

There would be no 5.5 edition.

 

[DEFCON 1]

experienced DMs do not need a new DMG, but new DMs need exposure to variants / alternatives

No, they don't.

New DMs can play the game as-is. No reason not to.

At some point in the future... they will have become experienced enough to determine that the game as-is is not what they want.

At that moment they will know what it is they don't like. They will figure out the rule that doesn't work for them. They might not know what it is they would prefer... but then again, there is not one thing WotC could produce in any "variant rules" section or book that would guarantee them getting what they want. So this newly-experienced DM will need to experiment. Come up with new ideas. Google it. See what others have done. Work it out. Become an even more experienced DM.

And at some point even further in the future, they will have that Eureka! moment where they figure out what it is they want. Naturally. On their own. Through trial and error. And really learning about themselves and their preferences in how they want their D&D game to run.

To think it is beneficial to circumvent all that learning by thinking we can just give them an answer right up front... an answer to a question they most likely aren't even asking and wouldn't like the answer given to them anyway... I believe is a poorer decision.

I believe trial and error is not something to be avoided and new players "saved from". I believe it is the hallmark of learning. And becoming a better DM.

 

[DEFCON 1]

You think them insisting that 5.5 is still the same 5e is an example of them respecting the intelligence of their consumer base?

...Ok. Let's just say I strongly disagree with you on their intentions.

And that does not matter.