I hope stat generation is addressed

[Mort]

I have always hated the arbitrary way in which stats are generated. I hate point buys, I hate 3d6. I think the new rule should be players decide their stats, with DM approval.

If the player wants all 18's, let them. If the player wants a hodge podge, let them. High stats are easy enough to offset (higher monster HP's and AC's), so just let the players truly create the character they want. They are allowed to do this via feat selection and skill selection, so why not at the most fundamental part of building their character?

So if a player wants to play a "Conan" type they should, even with their stats.

This argument seems off to me because there's (usualy) more than 1 person in the party. As such, "balancing" encounters will be a problem for some in the group if their stats are different (whether higher or lower). Now some groups don't care about differences in PC power, but most want at least some equality and that's where point buy comes in.

Why should DM's be allowed to force players to have characters with stats the player doesn't like? The DM has plenty of control as it is. So why not give the player total control of their characters stats?

Choosing stats doesn't solve this, again because there's more than 1 person in the group. With point buy, players have control over their stats but with some power level to reference to.
Now if everyone chooses their stats with a pre-determined power level, there is no problem, but that's, again, no different from point buy.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

As it is, "give your PC whatever stats you want" is only one of the options I give them. I also offer 4d6, re-roll all 1's and 2's, so the lowest stat possible is a 9 and tends to give 15's and 16's as the "normal range". Definitely see at least one 18 most of the time. Watched one player roll a character with 4 18's one time.

Actually, with all the choices I offer, this method is the one the players choose most often. Still somewhat random, but add in they are allowed to roll up and choose from three sets of stats, they are always happy with what they play with. In fact, in 14 years of offering these methods only one player ever gave themselves their stats, and all 18's. That character was dead by 4th level. In 2E.

So given the choice, players haven't chosen all 18's, except that one time, and it was done just to see what it would be like.

So, you don't actually play it like what you're suggesting in the first post, where you clearly state "the new rule should be" - not "a new rule should be" or "an optional character creation method should be". You give choices and nobody picks this character creation method - yet in the first post you seem to suggest it should be the ONLY method.

PS - That said, I am going to offer this character creation method to my players next time, and see what happens!

 

[Treebore]

So, you don't actually play it like what you're suggesting in the first post, where you clearly state "the new rule should be" - not "a new rule should be" or "an optional character creation method should be". You give choices and nobody picks this character creation method - yet in the first post you seem to suggest it should be the ONLY method.

PS - That said, I am going to offer this character creation method to my players next time, and see what happens!

The over riding rule I want is "the player creates their character however they wish."

How that is implemented is open to the individuals.

Until stats are generated how the player wants, its the DM that is controlling the character. It si the DM deciding the fundamentals. It is the DM straightjacketing the players.

Supposedly people hate the old 1E and 2E class write ups because of how limiting they were, etc...

So its time to remove yet another one. Allow the players total creative control of their PC's.

The DM still has final say, because they don't have to run the game if they don't want to.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

So its time to remove yet another one. Allow the players total creative control of their PC's.

The DM still has final say, because they don't have to run the game if they don't want to.

These statements are mutually contradictory. You can't have "total creative control" when you acknowledge the DM can still say "Screw that!".

Why stop at stats? Why not let players make up their own races, classes, and so on? Why should the DM have control of the setting, even?

 

[GlassJaw]

Damn, I want to change my vote. I voted before I read your post. The poll is very poorly worded.

By player control, I thought you meant point-buy, as in the players decide how they want to arrange their points.

 

[BryonD]

Both, with a dash of neither.

The DM should set the limits and the players should do what they want within those limits.
If the DM thinks that the limits should control the PCs significantly for a given campaign then the DM is correct. But after that the players should be as free as possible.

 

[Mort]

Both, with a dash of neither.

The DM should set the limits and the players should do what they want within those limits.
If the DM thinks that the limits should control the PCs significantly for a given campaign then the DM is correct. But after that the players should be as free as possible.

Isn't this exactly what point buy is - at least in regards to stat generation?

 

[Treebore]

These statements are mutually contradictory. You can't have "total creative control" when you acknowledge the DM can still say "Screw that!".

Why stop at stats? Why not let players make up their own races, classes, and so on? Why should the DM have control of the setting, even?

They are not mutually contradictory. They admit the FACT that the DM is the final arbiter, because without the DM the game doesn't happen. So the DM, by default if for no other reason, has to ultimately agree with how the character is generated. The DM has to ultimately agree with the ruels set being used.

So its admitting to the reality, not being mutually contradictory.

 

[Ankh-Morpork Guard]

Damn, I want to change my vote. I voted before I read your post. The poll is very poorly worded.

By player control, I thought you meant point-buy, as in the players decide how they want to arrange their points.

Honestly, I'd even argue that 4d6 is player control, as its the player rolling it.

In fact, the only thing I'd call DM control is a DM handing out premade PCs or stats.

 

[Treebore]

Both, with a dash of neither.

The DM should set the limits and the players should do what they want within those limits.
If the DM thinks that the limits should control the PCs significantly for a given campaign then the DM is correct. But after that the players should be as free as possible.

Yeah, but the excuse I have seen for controlling stats is that it makes PC's too powerful, it breaks the game, ruins the power curve, etc...

D&D is designed very well for the 3 to 18 range, even 1 to 20 (taking into account racial modifers), so I see 18's as a problem to DM's who feel they lose control of the game with high stats.

Then again, I have been dealing with high stats for 14+ years, with over 30 different players, so my experiences are by no means definitive, but I would say they are strongly indicative.


As for allowing players to design their races, etc... Sure, why not? As long as they stay within the power limits defined by the rules, whats the problem? Just like 3 to 18 is the defined parameter for beginning characters (before racial mods), whats the problem?