I just killed 1000 orcs! How much xp do I get? None!?

[justfisch]

I think that it is funny that over the course of this thread we have gone from 1000 plain old every day orcs to an underground complex in which the characters have sprung an insect plague trap, are beset upon by now 50 orcs with missile weapons, which are being lead by a half fiend orc Barb/Sor of CR 14. Are you leaving anything else out, no dragon familiars, or anything like that...

All the humor aside, I would rate this ambush at a CR16, your characters should have been well challenged by it. You never mentioned the outcome? Did any characters die?

cheers,
justfisch

 

[BLACKDIRGE]

I think that it is funny that over the course of this thread we have gone from 1000 plain old every day orcs to an underground complex in which the characters have sprung an insect plague trap, are beset upon by now 50 orcs with missile weapons, which are being lead by a half fiend orc Barb/Sor of CR 14. Are you leaving anything else out, no dragon familiars, or anything like that...

All the humor aside, I would rate this ambush at a CR16, your characters should have been well challenged by it. You never mentioned the outcome? Did any characters die?

cheers,
justfisch

Oh yeah, I forgot about Orcus and his retinue.

But seriously, yes some one died. The demon orc sor/barb was kicking the crap out of us with this gnarly falchion and managed to kill our archer. He would have probably killed the rest of us if my gnoll paladin hadn't disarmed him, (at great personal risk I might add ) which pretty much sent him running away with his tail between his legs. At that point we were seriously beat down and decided to leave the dungeon and head back for some healing and raising. The session ended shortly there after.

There also was a troll barbarian and a couple of ogre's running around that added to the fun.

Dirge

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

How often do orcs roll the two 20's in a row necessary to actually poison a PC? For that matter, why not just use Delay Poison?

They're worth XP, but not much. A high level party will just mow them down.

 

[Caliber]

Re: This is why Challenge Rating is Broken

Challenge Rating is broken. It says that orcs are not worth any xp against a party of 11th level characters regardless of tactics! If these orcs were using poison arrows, that did +5d20 damage, fortitude save -20 for 4/5th damage, they would STILL be worth no xp. that is stupid. Does anybody here remember a little dungeon treck called "DRAGON MOUNTAIN"? That second edition adventure pitted a party of 10+ level characters on an EPIC dungeon hack, where they barely managed to survive each session, and the vast majority of the enemy were KOBOLDS. Kobolds using good tactics, in their own environment, with superior weapons and poison and traps than standard kobolds. Because the game took this into account, people got more xp.

The bottom line is a 1 hit die monster with no asterisks (special abilities) should be worth say 10xp. If a 1st level character kills one, it is worth 1% of what he needs to level. If a 20th level character does, it is worth .0001% of what he needs to level. So what if you kill 1000? I think xp should be done the way it was in the older editions-- where if a 1 hd kobold had a bow with poisoned arrows-- save or die-- he was worth more xp than a kobold with a rusty dagger.

Anyhow, that is my opinion

I've played the other editions and I don't remember ANY charts with things like Bow = +10 XP, Sword = +5 XP.

Giving monsters superior tactics and equipment remained just as much of a judgement call back then as it is now.

The sliding XP chart helps avoid things like Sheep farming, an old 2E bit of stupidity. If you're dealing with enough low level critters to honestly be a threat (or if your BBEG happened to toss them all +10 swords or something) then yes you should get XP. But it gets to the point where its too subjective for a DM to tell. Thats why CRs are all based on the "average" monsters in the MM.

 

[Christian]

Re: This is why Challenge Rating is Broken

Challenge Rating is broken. It says that orcs are not worth any xp against a party of 11th level characters regardless of tactics!

It does? I must have missed that part-I just re-read the 'Rewards' chapter of the DMG, and I don't see it. I only see things like "The XP chart doesn't support XP for monsters that individually are eight Challenge Ratings lower than the party level, since an encounter with multiple weak creatures is hard to measure. See Assigning Ad Hoc XP Awards." (p. 166)

If these orcs were using poison arrows, that did +5d20 damage, fortitude save -20 for 4/5th damage, they would STILL be worth no xp.

Hmm, can't find that one either. All I see is stuff like, "Sometimes, the circumstances give the characters' opponents a distinct advantage. Other times, the PCs have an advantage. Adjust the XP award and the EL depending on how greatly circumstances change the encounter's difficulty."

that is stupid.

I have to say that judging a ruleset based on rules that are not, in fact, in it is quite spectacularly stupid.

BLACKDIRGE, please direct your DM to 'Assigning Ad Hoc XP Awards' on page 167 of the DMG. He should be making an evaluation of how much the 50 orc War1 enemies made the encounter more difficult, not just ignoring them because CR1 monsters don't have a specific value on the XP chart. OTOH, a CR3 trap-eg., a 40' deep spiked pit-probably ought to be worth nothing. The DC20 Search and Disable Device targets are cheese to a typical 11th level rogue, and even the DC20 Reflex save is unlikely to be missed by a rogue, bard, or monk on point. If you don't have any characters like that in your party, it may be more dangerous-but that's not the trap's fault. Undead are tougher if you don't have a cleric in the party (or have a cleric with an 8 Charisma, like our group ), but that doesn't raise their CR.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Re: Re: This is why Challenge Rating is Broken

Undead are tougher if you don't have a cleric in the party (or have a cleric with an 8 Charisma, like our group ), but that doesn't raise their CR.

"Wights!" Aeric gasped in horror. "Can you turn them, Mungo?"

Mungo grunted, fumbling his holy symbol out of his pouch. He waved it in the general direction of the sinister corpses.

"Sod off," Mungo grumped.

The wights glanced at each other in some confusion, shrugged, and continued their advance...

-Hyp.

 

[Sullaf]

"Wights!" Aeric gasped in horror. "Can you turn them, Mungo?"

Mungo grunted, fumbling his holy symbol out of his pouch. He waved it in the general direction of the sinister corpses.

"Sod off," Mungo grumped.

The wights glanced at each other in some confusion, shrugged, and continued their advance...

LOL ROFL

I keep reading it and keep falling of my chair. Absolutely briljant.

 

[Christian]

Re: Re: Re: This is why Challenge Rating is Broken

"Wights!" Aeric gasped in horror. "Can you turn them, Mungo?"

Mungo grunted, fumbling his holy symbol out of his pouch. He waved it in the general direction of the sinister corpses.

"Sod off," Mungo grumped.

The wights glanced at each other in some confusion, shrugged, and continued their advance...

This would be really hilarious, except I have to live with it ...