I killed our campaign

[Orius]

I'm disappointed. I was hoping this thread would be about how you caused a TPK.

 

[Trance Fiend]

CoC, either version (although I'll admit a slight preference to the d20 version) is just great no matter what. I'd jump at the chance to play in one again (although I'm not doing a gaming commute of 4+ hours one way to join Kent's...) and I incorporate tons of Cthulhu elements into my fantasy games all the time too.

Let us know how it goes. Heck, write up a story hour!

Heck me too, except I never played CoC, but always wanted to. Since I don't live near there (it would be about 4 hours for me as well), I won't get a chance. Well, I'll be in Milwaukee next week to visit friends/family/roleplay...and I just might pick up the book just to get my fix.

 

[9lives]

We have been playing WLD since the day it came out. Here is what we are doing to stop the boredom from creeping in.

I am DM'ing it and I allow PC's to play any D20 game PC they want. Star Wars, D&D, Eberron, D20 Modern, D20 Future, etc. One player is a Succubus from Savage Species, one is a StarTrek officer, one is a Jedi, one is a D20 modern businessman, one is a D20 modern PC that is modeled after Sam Fisher (I created an special advanced class for him) and many more.

Basically I have stated that there are mysterious ways for things to warp in. For instance I had a ship infested with "Aliens" from the Aliens movie crash into one of the larger rooms. I stated that it warped in from no-where. Basically we played 4 huge game sessions taking on the Queen alien and the players walked away happy with XP, Pulse Rifles, Grenades and HUDs.

I have done some other encounters where the Orc's have huge machine guns and riot gear and RPG's. My explanation again is that things warp in and out from other planes of existance.

I even warped the players into WWII Normandy Beach for one encounter. They ended up helping to take out some bunkers and helping to sway the battle. They picked up some German machine guns and Allied guns too. I know, not completely history accurate, but they had fun anyways.

It was sort of a wacky idea but it has been pretty balanced having a mix of different game systems. It has taken the "B" out of Boring. I am planning some other cool things, but I don't want to let them out until the PC's are higher level.

 

[Saeviomagy]

Here's the problem:
1. Your DM at the time sounds like he
a) doesn't have a clue
b) doesn't reward clever thinking
c) doesn't know how to make a game fun

The player in question sounds like he enjoys clever thinking, and happens to have been stuck with a character that's thick as a brick.

You sound like the sort of player who jumps on anyone who has a good idea and tells them that it won't work due to subsection 5, part b of the rules on page 176. You sound like the sort of player who tells others that they're not playing to their alignment.

Simply put - if creative thinking is out the window, and your DM is tactically hopeless, you're playing a strategy game against a beginner opponent. For hours at a time. With a guy who keeps telling you that you're not allowed to use strategies that are at all interesting or fun.

Frankly, that would have me going batty.

 

[Barendd Nobeard]

Here's the problem:
1. Your DM at the time sounds like he
a) doesn't have a clue
b) doesn't reward clever thinking
c) doesn't know how to make a game fun

Wow, that's a pretty harsh assessment for someone who's never played with the group and has heard about one gaming session. (Of course, it was a particularly crappy session....) But you're quite wrong on your assessment. Is he the best DM ever? No, I've played with better. But he runs a good game and it's usually fun. The creative player has done lots of creative things that the DM has allowed. But, according to you, the DM said no to one suggestion, so the DM "doesn't have a clue" and "doesn't reward clever thinking." I disagree.

The player in question sounds like he enjoys clever thinking, and happens to have been stuck with a character that's thick as a brick.

Yes to the first assessment. And if "cheese weaseling" is just an extreme (but acceptable) form of "clever thinking" then you assessment would be spot on. I agree, his logic was fantastic. But it's something his PC could never have thought of (based on the PC's INT score and the way he had played the PC for several months). It was crappy role playing; it was power-tripping. If you enjoy that kind of role-playing, great. More power to you (figuratively and literally ).

Now, as to the second issue, he could always have changed characters (other players in this game did so). But, for whatever reason(s), he chose not to do so.

You sound like the sort of player who jumps on anyone who has a good idea and tells them that it won't work due to subsection 5, part b of the rules on page 176. You sound like the sort of player who tells others that they're not playing to their alignment.

Wow. Again, you're taking a sample size of 1 incident and deciding you know how I game. But that's not me at all. Ask anyone who's played with me (as player or DM). Am I the "Rules Lawyer" type? No. Do I appreciate creativity? Yes. Note that above, I never quoted a rule to say it couldn't be done. I just used a little common sense. Too bad if that offends you. In fact, in this group, who's the most likely to pull out some obscure rule and tell someone they can't do something? Our DM? No. Me? No. Guess what--the "beef jerky + H₂0 = saltwater" player is the one in our group who pulls that rules-lawyering crap.

Now, if we were in a tight spot, and were at our wit's end trying to avoid a TPK, I would be the first to appreciate the creativity of this particular cheese-weaseling suggestion. But we were walking through a dungeon that we thought would challenge us; we didn't need any more power to survive the dungeon. So if the DM says no and the player with the item in question says no, I think it's best to just drop it and move on (we can always debate stuff later--after the session). I guess if you were in the situation, you'd think it was more important to be right and keep arguing than let the player with the item play his PC as he sees fit? OK.

Simply put - if creative thinking is out the window, and your DM is tactically hopeless, you're playing a strategy game against a beginner opponent. For hours at a time. With a guy who keeps telling you that you're not allowed to use strategies that are at all interesting or fun.

No, our DM is not (and was not) tactically hopeless. And, no, creative thinking was not "out the window." In fact, if you bothered to read everything above, you'd have noticed that the DM in question eventually capitulated to the player even on this issue.

Frankly, that would have me going batty.

What would drive you batty? Only getting your way 90% of the time? Someone actually calling one of your many "creative" solultions silly?

I'm sorry if it wasn't clear before. This player has many "creative" solutions to problems. And most of them are allowed over the course of a campaign (and appreciated by the player, myself included). My problems with these two "creative solutions" was that I believe the first one was stupid (and if I ever agreed that beef jerky could make freshwater into saltwater, I at least would have it take some time--it would not be an instantaneous effect). And the second one was just flat-out wrong (his PC could not have done it, based not only on his stats but how he role-played the PC for six months). And since I pointed that out and all he said, pointing to another player was, "His PC could think of it," I believe I was right in that assessment.

The combination of both these events occurring in close proximity to each other contributed greatly to my frustration on the evening in question.

Thanks for your input, Saeviomagy.

gizmo33, I'm ready for another session now!

 

[Saeviomagy]

Thanks for your input, Saeviomagy.

Hey, not every response can be congratulatory back-slapping.

The picture of the DM is painted by the fact that his response to a powerful party was "more hitpoints". The fact that said powerful party included ogres and pixies. The fact that his character generation system is "anything wotc goes". The fact that he is utterly unable to challenge you.

The picture of you? The fact that you resorted to calling his (second) idea "cheeze-weasel" perhaps? The fact that apparently a character who's a cleric (and therefore must have a good wisdom - the key stat for sense motive BTW...) and only has a "not that good" intelligence has a good idea, and your first reaction is "what's your character's intelligence? He's too dumb to have that idea!"

I mean - I'm sitting here, looking at an account given by a guy that I don't know. I'm going to assume that it's biased, because let's face it, noone is totally impartial.

So I've got a biased account, and it still comes across making your DM look incompetent, yourself look intolerant, and the guy who's coming up with ideas as picked upon.

What sort of conclusion am I supposed to come to? Just assume that because you were the one who posted that you're the good guy?

 

[Algolei]

Ok why do so many DM's have a ME vs. them mentality.

Why do so many people blame the DMs when the players screw up the game?

 

[Elephant]

If I were DM, I would have pointed out to the player that it works better with sea water, not just salt-water (an added limitation I would place just to deal with this sort of thing). How does the bowl know the water came from the sea and isn't just water with salt added? That's the nature of magic.

Isotopes. Sea water tends to contain more 18-O than fresh water does because it doesn't evaporate as readily (16-O is the most common isotope). The bowl's power is enhanced by the presence of a certain concentration of these heavier isotopes.

It's always fun when "That's the way the magic works" has an underlying scientific explanation

 

[Barendd Nobeard]

Hey, not every response can be congratulatory back-slapping.

I wasn't asking for congratulatory back-slapping. But insulting me and my DM (based only on my "biased" opinion) is just not productive.

And I did point out that the player's creativity is generally allowed and appreciated, but that this one time it got over-ruled. And that based on one experience I relate in a game, I'm "intolerant"? Whatever.

 

[just__al]

If I were DM, I would have pointed out to the player that it works better with sea water, not just salt-water (an added limitation I would place just to deal with this sort of thing). How does the bowl know the water came from the sea and isn't just water with salt added? That's the nature of magic.

Damn skippy! If pressed, I'd even go as far as saying that SEA water has been touched by the god of the oceans and that's why it works better.

If they try to argue, just bludgeon them with the nearest rulebook and remind them that D&D isn't real life and physics and chemistry don't always (and sometimes don't usually) apply.