D&D (2024) I like the new Warlock

[mellored]

Personally I would prefer that feature be on a short rest over a long rest, but I don’t think that would compensate for the significant loss of spell power from the change to half-casting. Also, once between short rests is much less reliable than twice.

I am suggesting once per short rest, plus the daily slots.

Which is close to channel nature. 3 per day +1 per short rest.

 

[Tutara]

I like the move away from Pact Casting. I do not think I am convinced by the half caster idea as it stands, though. I will have to test it, but if this is the way then I would like them to consider adding almost the opposite of Mystic Arcana - over a certain level, let me cast specific low level spells at will, with no cost. Give me a bastardised version of the Wizard's signature spell - let me cast not just Silent Image at will (a contender for my favourite invocation) but an improved choice of low level spells, increasing as I go up in level. Give me at will Detect Thoughts or Command!

Let my warlock be a perpetual engine of hedge magic.

 

[Aldarc]

Thank you, that's very flattering. Unfortunately, between my job, 4 kids, and 3 different campaigns running, my game design has to be limited to random bon mots on the interwebs.

My apologies, @TwoSix, for the edit, but I feel like you need the video version.

 

[Bolares]

let me cast not just Silent Image at will (a contender for my favourite invocation)

Mine is mask of many faces

 

[Tutara]

Mine is mask of many faces

This is also a brilliant invocation, because it too completely changes gameplay. More of these, please.

 

[RoughCoronet0]

How would you feel about my suggestion of copying the channel nature/divinity recovery method from the druid and paladin packet? A larger but still small number of uses (maybe spellcasting mod uses?), which you regain one of after a short rest and all of after a long rest?

Looking at the Druid/Paladin packet, I could definitely see the Channel Nature/Divinity recharge working as a way of allowing those frustrated with the short rest dependency like myself to have more control over spell slot recovery while keeping Pact Magic as a short rest mechanic.

I could see it either being a recharge a number of times equal to spell casting modifier with the current number of spell slots (1 to start, 2 at 2nd lvl, 3 at 11th, and 4 at 17th) or maybe just recharging twice per long rest but possibly bump the spell slots number a bit earlier (2 at start. 3 at 5th level, 4 at 11th level)?

Though now I'm wondering it we could actually make a Channel feature for warlocks. Call it "Channel Patron" and give us some generic options and patron specific options to use, and maybe even some bonus invocations to opt into.

 

[Neonchameleon]

But I like how the warlock plays, that's what I'm saying. I just never saw pact magic as the only/best way to do what the warlock wants to do. I find it punishing, DM dependant, it forces the whole group to make short rests... A lot of us don't think that the warlock shouldn't be defined by pact magic, even if we like the class.

I for one have never said that Pact Magic is the only way to do things. However it does a lot of things I like - and replacing pact magic with generic half-casting takes away almost everything that makes me like the warlock mechanically other than that you get more control on how you level up thanks to invocations. The thing is warlocks always were half casters; they just were basically the other half of half-casters to the way they are now.

Off the top of my head things I liked included:

• A short list of spells known and no need to track slots or upcasting meant that the warlock was objectively simpler in play than any other casting class
• Not having the low level slots meant that there was less faff and less to overwhelm a new player with because you got so few spells.
• Not having to share the spells across slots means you can work with a much cleaner spell list.
• Having the high level slots gives you moments of awesome - but at a cost
• The slight reluctance to use those slots simply because you have so few is very thematic for someone with a patron they don't quite trust and therefore can be reluctant to ask for favours from.
• Jumping straight to the high level spells without the foundations made the warlock feel like the right sort of cheaty caster, very like a warlock and very different from any other classes
• Using at will or permanently on invocations rather than limited use spell slots is its own type of utility, making you think "where would this be useful" rather than "what in my bag solves this"? It's a different sort of utility. One I find more fun - and this has almost remained, being slightly undermined by getting both types of utility rather than one.
• The fact it was an actual class that worked differently. The point of a class system is that different people can enjoy different things at the same table.

I wouldn't have objected to pact magic changing a little. Especially as it was obvious the short rest situation was messed up. (I do not think that an hour was ever a good idea). But this threw the baby out with the bathwater, replacing the pact magic with generic half-assed half casting that took almost all the parts I liked mechanically about the warlock and replaced them with the parts I liked not having to deal with, in the process gutting the thematical "Magical cheater who doesn't have the foundations" theme to the class.

 

[tetrasodium]

I agree with you here. That's a reason for my fear of them nerfing cantrips and invocations to keep pact magic. because they will not keep it as is, they will have to make it more frequent, and for that to work they'd have to drop some other feature of the class.
I if we keep it a half-caster, and find a more elegant way to do Mystic Arcanum, where it doesn't feel so much like a feat tax (an invocation tax in this case) would it work for the pro pact magic people?

I'd love for them to take a stick to innate scaling cradle to grave at will cantrips & move them to things like wands (charged/at will I don't care) that scale as the wand is replaced or upgraded to a better one through crafting/questing/adventuring & similar but don't see any need to nerf the current packet warlock stuff.

I do think there are a few no-prereq invocations that need a higher prereq even if they are updated by splitting them into a higher prereq'd version(ie Level4-5) as is that gets swapped in at higher level & a version more suitable to being part of a multiclass dip.

Splitting it like that shouldn't make much of an impact on straight warlocks simply because tier 1 PCs don't have the durability & gas tank size to make the same kind of use that a tier 2/3/4 PC with 2 levels of warlock would.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Why not both?

Half caster progression and chanel patron. One slot that is always at highest level (warlock level/2 round up) and recharges at long rest. And half caster progression. Makes it nore multiclass friebdly when mixed with other casters.

Would also be a model for the paladin when using smite spells.

 

[Aldarc]

A lot of people like the idea of the warlock, but don’t like the way the class actually plays. I feel similarly about rangers (in 5e D&D), and about Artificers as well. This is the unfortunate reality of a system where a class is both a narrative archetype and a set of play mechanics. Sometimes you like a class’s narrative identity but don’t like its gameplay function. But I think it’s valuable to have a variety of classes that play in different ways. Why can’t we let the people who like how the warlock plays have their fun?

I like how the 2014 Warlock plays as a class. I enjoyed pact magic, invocations, and the like. However, I don't necessarily like how the 2014 Warlock actually plays in terms of what I imagine to be its class fantasy.

When I think of warlocks, I typically think of something like Elric of Melnibone or even someone like John Constantine. I think of summoning, rituals, and bargaining with otherworldly beings. But 5e relegated so much of the interesting bits of the Warlock's fantasy to either off-screen or to the GM side of things.

In contrast, Monte Cook's Invisible Sun RPG has a "class" called the Goetic. It's what I have always imagined what a Warlock should be like. The Goetic summons angels, demons, devils, spirits, etc. through rituals and forges pacts through negotiations in return for magical favors. This doesn't happen off-screen. It's not a feature that we told comes from their patron but is indistinguishable from any other class's level-up feature. It's what they do in play.