I LOVE the instancing!

[Raigon]

instancing made me quit Guild Wars after 2 weeks.

I feel that making the entire map unique to a party limits the interaction between players and the realism of the game. It in my opinion defeats the purpose and the game. After all this is supose to be a massive MULTIPLAYER game. The Guild Wars approach destroyed the multiplayer feel of the game. I also found that instancing made it difficult to meet other quality players as well as complete missions. Even in DnD there are other people in the world that are bound to be doing some other characters that are doing the same things that the PCs are doing. Granted that it eliminated spawn camping, ganking, and other drawbacks of mmorpgs it killed interation between players. I dearly hope that future mmorpgs take the WoW approach to instancing and keep it to a minimun and to a location where it is needed.

 

[trancejeremy]

GW was never really meant to be a MMORPG. It probably owes more to Diablo than anything else. (Closer to Dungeon Siege, IMHO)

Which is both a plus or a minus. If you are looking for an MMORPG, then it's definitely a minus. But if you are looking for a fun action-RPG with an online component, then it's pretty good.

WoW is a better MMORPG (probably the best), but OTOH, a year of it plus the game would run you what, close to $200? While GW is just $50. Which besides the instancing (GW is free because of that, since their servers don't have to do nearly as much) is also reflected somewhat in the quality and frills of the game.

I think there will probably be evolution from both ends. That is, you'll see more instancing in traditional MMORPGs. And then if GW is a success, then you'll see other games follow that model, but try to expand the online and multiplayer aspect (which definitely needs some improvement)

 

[RangerWickett]

It seems that instancing is designed to stop poor sportsmanship.

Well, in a real fantasy world, poor sportsmanship would also exist, but people would deal with it in an entirely different way.

Thargor: "Aye, laddie. All that work for nothing. The wee bastard stole the Lance of Longinus."

Laddie: "Then let's get it back."

Thargor: "Indeed. I'll round up a posse. We'll show that bastard what frontier justice is really like!"

One butt-kicking later:

Thargor: "Get ye gone from our server! You got off lucky this time, since we just level-drained you and took all your stuff. If we see you 'round these parts again, you'll get some real hurtin'."



Basically, MMOs should be able to self-police all things that aren't actual hacks. It's good to have some villainous snots who steal kills, because then the good guys can track them down and thwack 'em. You need to make sure that people can't just log-off to run away, so have their bodies remain when they log-off. Most people will go to an inn to sleep, and inns will offer protection. But you should be able to get around those protections.

These games coddle weak folk too much. It is a tough balance to make sure the long-time players don't scare off newbies, but that shouldn't be too hard in a large world.

 

[DonTadow]

I hoped that instancing will finally make me love MMORPGs as much as my friends do. I have have come to the conclusion that I might not just be an MMORPGs. The thing I don't like about instancing is that my actions really don't matter. It's like if I went into to a cave, fought all the monsters and came out with the rare artifact. Then I come outside, proud of my rare artifact and I discover that a 100 other people are there too with the same rare artifact.

However, I hate the way other other MMORPGs operate. 100s of people camped out for these rare drops. Economies in games are crazy. The adventures are not unique to you. It's annoying.

My solution, which I doubt will never happen, is for a small number of people in each world, no more than 100 per server. The world would be the average mmorpg size. Have a great number of adventures and dungeons that have instancing where the map for each dungeon is generated on teh spot for your team. Then make the creature or treasure different. The final boss would have random statstics and hd (sort of like dungeons and dragons).

 

[RangerWickett]

The way I see it, you need more to the game than just adventures and monster-slaying to make it viable. There need to be guilds for everyday affairs, interesting events in cities so people can be entertained, cool places to hang out, new lands to explore, ancient secrets to discover, mysteries in the heavens, prophecies from the gods, and political upheavals that might lead to war.

 

[DonTadow]

instancing made me quit Guild Wars after 2 weeks.

I feel that making the entire map unique to a party limits the interaction between players and the realism of the game. It in my opinion defeats the purpose and the game. After all this is supose to be a massive MULTIPLAYER game. The Guild Wars approach destroyed the multiplayer feel of the game. I also found that instancing made it difficult to meet other quality players as well as complete missions. Even in DnD there are other people in the world that are bound to be doing some other characters that are doing the same things that the PCs are doing. Granted that it eliminated spawn camping, ganking, and other drawbacks of mmorpgs it killed interation between players. I dearly hope that future mmorpgs take the WoW approach to instancing and keep it to a minimun and to a location where it is needed.

For those same reasons, and the ones listed above, I quit Guild Wars. I NEVER teamed up with anyone in the game and I played for two weeks. I didn't have to. I didn't even need to trade to anyone because I had everything I needed. My suggestion wouldh ave been that the game have some type of device that allows another player to join you in your "instant" dungeon at anytime, but theres some xp deducation or something.

 

[Ankh-Morpork Guard]

The way I see it, you need more to the game than just adventures and monster-slaying to make it viable. There need to be guilds for everyday affairs, interesting events in cities so people can be entertained, cool places to hang out, new lands to explore, ancient secrets to discover, mysteries in the heavens, prophecies from the gods, and political upheavals that might lead to war.

Which is why I like how WoW is set up...with Dungeons being instanced and the rest of the world pretty much open.

Especially since, in WoW, you couldn't go and PvP that punk that stole your last kill in the dungeon if you're both on the Horde side.

 

[Raigon]

The reason I think that companies are making games that are so begginer friendly is that they apeal to a wider group of people. No one wants to get spawn camped or have there kill stolen from them. I just hope that they will still make games where people can interact in the game world, granted people will be jerks but that adds to the realism of the game and for me the fun.

 

[Timeboxer]

The Dungeons and Dragons Online game will use instancing, I seem to remember.

 

[Duncan Haldane]

It seems that instancing is designed to stop poor sportsmanship.

Well, in a real fantasy world, poor sportsmanship would also exist, but people would deal with it in an entirely different way.

Thargor: "Aye, laddie. All that work for nothing. The wee bastard stole the Lance of Longinus."

Laddie: "Then let's get it back."

Thargor: "Indeed. I'll round up a posse. We'll show that bastard what frontier justice is really like!"

One butt-kicking later:

Thargor: "Get ye gone from our server! You got off lucky this time, since we just level-drained you and took all your stuff. If we see you 'round these parts again, you'll get some real hurtin'."



Basically, MMOs should be able to self-police all things that aren't actual hacks. It's good to have some villainous snots who steal kills, because then the good guys can track them down and thwack 'em. You need to make sure that people can't just log-off to run away, so have their bodies remain when they log-off. Most people will go to an inn to sleep, and inns will offer protection. But you should be able to get around those protections.

These games coddle weak folk too much. It is a tough balance to make sure the long-time players don't scare off newbies, but that shouldn't be too hard in a large world.

Stealing items can still happen with instances - but generally only by the group leader. For example, in WoW you have a number of ways the leader can decide to distribute treasure. One thing I know has been done is that the leader changes the looting to him only during the battle with the BBEG - then takes the item(s) dropped and disappears with it. But it doesn't make you very popular.

In WoW you choose to play eithere a horde character or an alliance character. While Horde can fight alliance and vica versa, horde cannot fight horde (they can duel, however).

I think WoW have done well with the instancing. It's in the right sort of places and has reasonable limitations.

GW has it's own perks as a game, but I agree that all map areas being instances can be a bit too much - I've only teamed with a friend of mine, and others he's joined with along the way, and really haven't interacted with many people in GW. However, GW does have a much stronger timeline to it, and the missions are much more related to the main plot than even elite or dungeon quests in WoW.

Duncan