I may not be switching to D&D 3.5 (Crossposted)

[Alcamtar]

I'm at a point in my life where I probably won't play ANY RPG that doesn't have computer support. I use my computer for everything now -- it's my filing cabinet, artist's workshop, cartography table, telephone answering machine, and magic toy box all in one. I'll never go back to scrawling adventure notes on scraps of paper. So it's not 3rd edition -- I was a heavy user of the 2E Core Rules program as well...

Sure, but with OD&D, a word processor is all the support you need! No cutting and pasting, just write what you want and you're done with it.

 

[Umbran]

Re: Re: Re: I may not be switching to D&D 3.5 (Crossposted)

I do need the computer, and if that makes me spoiled, then so be it.

Having read what you've said, actually, I wouldn't call you spoiled. I respectfully submit that you suffer from another problem - being set in your ways.

There are implied signs of it in a number of places -

"D&D, more than ever before in its past, is about tools for creating and combining stuff"

"I do a lot with monster/class combos, advanced monsters, and classed NPCs..."

"2E AD&D had computer support, and now that's how I play....I don't play their games, and probably won't play any game that doesn't provide computer support..."

All of which have an implied, "And I'm not terribly interested in looking for anything else." Not willing to try different games. Or different ways of playing the game you do play.

Sorry if I'm reading a bit too far into it, but that is rather what you sound like. You sound like you aren't willing to even try playing any other way anymore.

Now, I'm a strong proponent of the "Play the way you have fun" position. I won't knock the way you play. I will, however, respectfully submit that the resistance to trying, the rejection of experiment, is not particularly healthy. Resistance to experimentation is, in my experience, one of the classic first steps toward burnout.

When was the last time you really tried to do without? And I don't mean trying to do the same old thing, and been frustrated with not having your tools. I'm talking about putting aside the tools, and running the game differently to suit. When was the last time you really took a break from how you normally do things, and tried to see if you might now have a taste for something else?

*shrug*. Apologies if I am off base. But it'd be a shame if I were right, and failed to make you aware of it.

 

[EricNoah]

Umbran, I think I understand what you're saying. But sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. If D&D goes 3.5, I want e-Tools to do so as well. I personally don't think it's much to ask!

 

[thalmin]

Even a little change done at the core class level could trickle down. Let's say Bards get more skill points. That's going to be something that needs to be changed in parts of the database that don't export/import easily (or maybe at all). So either WotC needs to patch it, or we'll need instructions on how to get in and change those numbers/settings.



As mentioned above, changes to core classes could be the most problematic. Let's say the 3.5 Ranger has his abilities spread out a little differently than the original. We'll need some way (whether in an official patch, or a set of instructions) to edit the original Ranger.

Can't both of these points be addressed right now with Davin's ETHelper? This may be a non-issue, unless you know a lot more than we do about 3.5.

 

[EricNoah]

Well that's the thing, we don't know much about the changes. Little tweaks here and there, if they involve information at the database level and not at the code level in e-Tools, wouldn't be a particularly big impediment. But we do know they're adding new prestige classes to the DMG and the +1 spellcaster level prestige classes we can't currently create with ET Helper.

Think of it this way, Thalmin -- it's August 2003, a customer walks into your store and picks up the 3.5 rulebooks and grabs a copy of e-Tools. Aside from the fact that they'll need to patch it, the rules in e-Tools will no longer be the same as those in the core D&D rulebooks. I see that as a pretty significant problem.

The sunny side of all of this is -- if the changes aren't that significant, it should be easy for WotC to get the existing e-Tools patched and ready for 3.5. We know they must still be at least thinking about doing more with it -- the current patch is called a 'beta patch' -- so that implies that they're going to try to come up with some way to provide a release version of the patch. Whether that means mending fences with Fluid or hiring some other computer company to take care of the problems, it wouldn't be (I don't think) too much of a stretch to say, "By the way, would you do another patch to get e-Tools ready for D&D 3.5."

 

[Droogie]

Umbran, I think I understand what you're saying. But sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. If D&D goes 3.5, I want e-Tools to do so as well. I personally don't think it's much to ask!

And realistically speaking, I'm sure they will update the software. They would be stupid not to. I really don't think you have anything to worry about.

 

[ergeheilalt]

I really dont see where Eric is coming from. Total dependance on the computer is something I try to stay away from; especially when it comes to a social game like D&D.This is not to say dont use the computer, I love the computer; however, for some reason or another, I'm with the OD&Ders. I use the computer solely for word processing and online games. There was a time when I did run a game from the laptop. It was a mess. I run an online game with a few other DMs, but I still have a fat notebook filled with lined paper, printed copies of things I've found on the web, maps *gasp* drawn with a ruler and pencil on graph paper. I have e-tool and PCgen, but I find it hard to fit it all on the computer screen and pay enough attention to the players, maybe Eric is just better at dividing his attention, but I cannot do it.

Now getting back to the point, a great friend of mine (DM and player in my game for a time) posed a question, "Can you truly fault a company (wotc) who is correcting problems?" I found this to be one of the biggest strengths of the argument for 3.5. When you play online (through mIRC, wizards, or what not) you cannot say, "Were going to be using the rules from my book". It is impossible for the other players to look over my shoulder at the book I'm using. I dont have the errata printed (call me a cheapskate, but I cant stand wasting ink). So, why not reprint and revise the rules most of us have either changed or discarded. Changes in spells, skill points, and monster-classes dont seem like they'll shake the foundation of the D&D universe.

Now, what it looks like to me (and I may be totally wrong), is that the title - D&D 3.5 - is what is scaring people like the war of the worlds. Software is given the same version numbering, but from the broad overview presented by Ed Stark in Dragon, it really seems like D&D 3.2. (3.1 being the errata, and 3.2 being the finally revised rule books). Looking back to the software changes from 2E to 3E, it came along pretty quickly, if not by wizards, by the DMs and players themselves. So "Nostradamas" Noah should rest assure, by next December there will be plenty of support for the revised rules. My suggestion is to use the old rules for awhile longer until you find software that appeals to you.

Sorry if it seems like a rant, lol, seems I always end up with a long post after vowing to keep myself short.

Here's to nexttime

 

[Kaji]

I don't know about the rest of you, but I would eat broken glass to get a E-Tools type program that really worked right. I've been adding content the DND community has developed for months, and I'm still very short on some important abilites, I'm sure everyone is sick of hearing this story. If 3.5 breaks the electronic tools that I've found that do work well, that would be discouraging, but I still think I'd go for it. I desire the rule fixes and I want to playing with rules I don't need to reverse engineer if I buy a new product from Wizards or Third Party. I just hope that those who have already made great fan tools will be able to kick in once again and help out with the updates. I, for you, will keep my paypal account ready to show my appreciation for those whose work I sponge off.

 

[WayneLigon]

Pointing back to the old survey WOTC did, I seem to remember it showing that most D&D players don't use a PC? Does anyone have that figure?

Right now, doing a 3E character is so much second nature that I rarely need the PC to do anything except put the figures in nice statblock order.

I think if you're going to wait for WOTC to put out a 3.5E software tool, you'll wait forever. The one they have for 3E did not and does not cover what it needs to cover and there is no indication that it ever will.

If I'm going to actually pay good money for a software product, it had better do more than I can already do in my head; E-Tools does basic chargen, but I don't need a program that does basic chargen. I need something to sanity-check and math-check some hideous combination like a half-fiend vampiric medusa with levels in rogue, fighter and assassin with a customized assassin spell list.

 

[ColonelHardisson]

I really dont see where Eric is coming from. Total dependance on the computer is something I try to stay away from; especially when it comes to a social game like D&D.

Unless I'm misreading what Eric is saying, he's not really talking about using a computer at the gaming table, at least that's not the primary point of his post. He, as well as a lot of us, are talking about a dedicated program for D&D with which we can generate characters, monsters, and items (and more, but since e-Tools concentrates on chargen, I'll stick to that).