D&D 4E I miss 4E

[RigaMortus2]

Well it seems that you missed the first sentence of my post about being hyperbolic.

Oh no, I didn't miss it. I just (a) don't know what the word means and (b) chose to ignore it so I could be argumentative. Hey, at least I'm being honest...

In that context, to rephrase my original post, what I am taking issue with is:

1. The lack of new material along those lines for the period from mid-August to mid-March or mid-April, in favor of a re-packaged, re-formatted, re-releasing of what is, ah, essentially old material.
2. The possibility that the "Era of the hardcover" is over, and that the direction for 4E going forward is Essentials.

I see your point, and I agree 100%

What I am not saying is "I hate Essentials and WotC for killing 4E and taking my stuff!" or "4E 4Evar!" I was happy when 3E came out, happy when 3.5E came out, happy when 4E came out, and probably happy when 5E comes out. I don't mind Essentials but I just hope that it is not the main direction going forward. Call me somewhat disappointed and mildly leery.

I didn't think that. I'm not entirely sold on essentials myself, and the non-hardcover look and feel of it is a turn off for me. Blah.

 

[kalfalnal]

$20 book > $30 book.

That is all.

 

[drothgery]

$20 book > $30 book.

That is all.

Maybe, but after Amazon gets through with it, you're looking at roughly $15 book vs. $20 book, and if it's going in my backpack of gaming stuff, hardcover > softcover. Of course, the new format is more easily translateable to a good eBook format, so if that goes anywhere, it's a major plus.

 

[kalfalnal]

I run my game on a laptop and reference the compendium for rules most of the time. With electronic tools my hard copy books just sit there taking up space 95% of the time anyway.

Seems to me people frequently overstate the amount of useful material we've been getting out of the typical 4e hardcover book while simultaneously downplaying how much new material is in essentials. Or perhaps thats just the way it seems to me since I use the character builder and don't have much motivation to purchase the latest power source books.

 

[Mercurius]

You know, I sympathize with those whom Essentials doesn't appeal to... and yet, I find this statement completely bogus. The two Heroes books are just as much new content as Martial Power, Arcane Power, etc.

That's sort of my point. Those are the types of books I don't buy anyways, that I get through DDI updates. In some sense I would have the same complaint if WotC only came out with Power books over an eight-month span, without and fluff-oriented theme books, campaign settings, or core expansions.

I just don't see your claim as any more legitimate than a 4E player saying, "Man, I missed 4E during April, May, June and July, when WotC abandoned me as a customer, and only put out books like the Plane Above, Demonicon, and all this other DM content."

In the end, not every book will appeal to every customer. That's unavoidable. But the fact that the current content doesn't interest you doesn't mean that WotC has stopped producing material for 4E.

Yes, true. So why is this bogus? I admitted to hyperbole, so what's the problem? Even so, I think it is safe to say that we are amidst the slowest time for new 4E material in its shortish history. That isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it is what it is.

Thats what they seem to be saying. I mean, its supposed to be an improvement, right? (I am curious if there will be any big changes to rituals or more ritual type utilities).

I dunno. From what I've gathered their just Essentializing the PHB stuff. So basically it looks like a revised version of part of the PHB.

So, shadowfell box set it is...actually, there are a few products that might fall into that, but it may be a while, as you note in the op.

I'm definitely getting that, plus Mordenkainen's, maybe Heroes of Shadow. I was planning on getting the Nentir Vale Gazetteer but am unsure if or when that is coming out. I am hoping that they are reformatting it to be a hardcover (better) or box set (best).

The Mordekainen Stuff book was supposed to be hardback, but an Australian actually pushed the digest only rumor today. And if there are cost savings it makes sense.

Ugh, too bad. But if they do what I'm suspecting they'll do--make hardcovers a deluxe format limited to core rulebooks and campaign settings--then that would make sense.

Though I would not be surprised if, in a few years time, they cycled back to hardbacks (and put all the player stuff in one!).

Yes, that's the thing. The nature of the industry is that they're going to have to constantly scramble for sales spikes, whether it is new editions, new formats, new product lines, etc. But what they know doesn't work is the endless churning out of the same type of thing, year after year.

Oh no, I didn't miss it. I just (a) don't know what the word means and (b) chose to ignore it so I could be argumentative. Hey, at least I'm being honest...

Ha! I appreciate that. Hyperbole means over-exaggeration, over-dramatic, etc.

Maybe, but after Amazon gets through with it, you're looking at roughly $15 book vs. $20 book, and if it's going in my backpack of gaming stuff, hardcover > softcover. Of course, the new format is more easily translateable to a good eBook format, so if that goes anywhere, it's a major plus.

Yes, good point. Again, I don't see why it has to be either/or, why we can't see a variety of formats. This is how I would do it:

Hardcovers - core rulebooks and expansions, major theme books
Box Sets - campaign settings, mega adventures, starter set(s)
Digest/softcovers books - rules references, crunch splats, setting expansions

Or something like that. They could still stick with 15ish book products a year, but 3-6 could be hardcover, 2-4 box sets, and 6-8 digests/softcovers.

 

[Dice4Hire]

$20 book > $30 book.

That is all.

That is a bit simplistic to me. Use, durability, looks, layout, readability among others count also.　

 

[Vartan]

The Mordekainen Stuff book was supposed to be hardback, but an Australian actually pushed the digest only rumor today.

Well gee, if an Australian said it then it must be true

 

[Lord Xtheth]

I kinda don't like the Digest format. I think it's good for the Rules Compendium, but not realy for the "core" essentials books. I'll wait and see what the Monster book looks like though, because a monster Digest would be awesome!

 

[MrMyth]

That's sort of my point. Those are the types of books I don't buy anyways, that I get through DDI updates. In some sense I would have the same complaint if WotC only came out with Power books over an eight-month span, without and fluff-oriented theme books, campaign settings, or core expansions.

And my point is that you seemed to be saying there was a problem with WotC's approach - that they had stopped producing content and had a massive shift in available content. But I don't think that's the case - they've just had a period where they didn't produce content you didn't want, and that is a very different thing.

Yes, true. So why is this bogus? I admitted to hyperbole, so what's the problem? Even so, I think it is safe to say that we are amidst the slowest time for new 4E material in its shortish history. That isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it is what it is.

I'm not sure about that. One who only plays Divine characters might have considered some other stretch to be a more barren period. An FR player might have viewed the period after FR came out to no longer be of interest.

But let's take a look overall.
June 2008: PHB, DMG, MM come out.
July 2008: Nothing.
August 2008: FRCG.
September 2008: Adventurer's Vault, FRPG.
October 2008: Nothing.
November 2008: Draconomicon, Martial Power.
December 2008: Manual of the Planes.
January 2009: Open Grave.
February 2009: Dungeon Delve.

So, July 2008 through February 2009. A similar 8 month period. What do we have?

Player books: FRPG, Martial Power, Adventurer's Vault.
Flavor books: FRCG, Draconomicon, Manual of the Planes, Open Grave.
DM/Player Tools: Dungeon Delve.

As compared to:
Player books: HotFL, HotFK, HoS, HoL, Mordenkainen's Magnificent Emporium.
DM/Player Tools: DM's Kit, Monster Vault, Rules Compendium.

I'm seeing just as much content as we've had in the past. The only difference, again, is that it isn't content you are interested in. Fair enough. That's certainly something one can discuss.

And I'm guessing the heart of it is more about the lack of flavor heavy content and DM monster/location books than anything else. And it sounds like part of that is that they are trying to insert a bit more flavor into the books themselves, so I suppose we'll see how that goes.

I think it's perfectly fine to say you wish they had different products coming out. It's the claim that this is the slowest time for 4E content or that we're not seeing anything new - those are the claims I'm considering bogus. They aren't genuine descriptions of the situation, just your own perspective filtered through what products you personally desire.

I don't have any problems with you saying that you miss 4E products you like, or that you are a fan of hardcovers and flavor books and other things we aren't getting. But I'm less inclined to agree with general claims about this somehow being a universal problem or one that indicates any sort of potential issues for D&D as a whole.

 

[Mercurius]

MrMyth, you are comparing apples and oranges here. The two lists are made up of completely different material: the former is comprised of new material (for 4E, at least), while the latter is largely rehashments of previously published 4E material. Actually, of the second list, only two--Mordenkainen's and Heroes of Shadow are new material, and both don't come at the very end of the period.

To put it another way, from mid-August of 2010 to mid-March of 2011 when Heroes of Shadow comes out--a period of seven months--WotC is basically putting out nothing but Essentialized versions of material they've already published.

Yes, my preference is for fluff/flavor/theme books and core expansions, but that doesn't negate my point, nor does your post. The vast majority of what WotC is producing for D&D during this seven-month stretch is re-inventing the 4E wheel in Essentialized form. Where's the new stuff? Why can't they sprinkle it amidst the Essentials material?