D&D 5E I Miss Tangents...

[Khelon Testudo]

I think Psionics should be a subtype of Sorcery, with perhaps Subtle Spell at the earliest level?

 

[Samloyal23]

I think Psionics should be a subtype of Sorcery, with perhaps Subtle Spell at the earliest level?

Ick! No.

 

[Samloyal23]

Different from Magic? DnD’s brand of magic is SO nebulous and it’s scope so absurdly large that anything beyond ‘I whack it with a sharpened stick’ can be labelled ‘Magic’. Especially so in 5e where ‘Magic is Vancian’ is no longer a valid method of classification.

Most magic is still spell-based. Psionics in 2E was not. Powers were more like skills and feats.

 

[Samloyal23]

I would much rather have Psionics be a type of magic than have these whole new rules that need to be set up. The problem with psionics in general is that everyone is vulnerable to it in 5e. Counterspell doesn't work even if it's a spell since psionics aren't supposed to be "perceptable," magic resistance kinda works but only if it counts as spellcasting or has the asterisk saying it counts as "magical," Plus I'm having a hard time picturing an acceptable mechanic to justify their inclusion without it being broken

Magic powers that affect or detect psionics simply need to be researched for that specific end. A wizard who knows what psionics is and that it must be countered will develop spells like Detect Psionics, Protection from Psionics, et cetera. Likewise, a Psionicist worth his crystals will develop powers that allow magic to be countered.

 

[grimslade]

We aren't going to see a separate system for psionics in 5E. There is no desire from the devs to do this. Every iteration of UA and Happy Fun hour has used existing systems to fill the psionic niche. The least palatable being the wizard tradition. I do not see WotC shaking anything up for psionics in this edition, even though I believe the rules system is robust enough to expand beyond its current form.

Ideally, Dark Sun could be a PHB replacement. It would rip out arcane classes and replace them with the Defiler and Preserver classes. It could limit divine classes to Elemental shamans and introduce a robust psionic system. Having a robust psionic system and a robust magic system is pointless. There is too much overlap. Since psionics are also a big part of Eberron as well, I don't see this approach being taken.

 

[Asisreo]

Magic powers that affect or detect psionics simply need to be researched for that specific end. A wizard who knows what psionics is and that it must be countered will develop spells like Detect Psionics, Protection from Psionics, et cetera. Likewise, a Psionicist worth his crystals will develop powers that allow magic to be countered.

See, but with that, why isn't there any creature with that ability? Surely a mind flayer would have some form of counter for psionics but they don't. Now what? Do they make an errata saying mind flayers have this-that-and so-and-so traits? Do the Gith get those as well? What about mages, named ones from the adventurers already published? What about liches? And beholders?

I also think they'd need to upgrade the mind flayer's capacity for psionics too. Does it really make sense that giths, masters of psionics, have access to around 5 psionic abilities that basically perfectly mimic a spell while a player gets 15 or 20 of them each with their unique spice?

I think psionics would've been fine in 5e but now it's too late and there's too much to account for. I'd just hold out for 5.5e or 6e to have player-available psionics.

 

[Azzy]

I much prefered the 3e/3.5 implementation.

 

[JiffyPopTart]

See, but with that, why isn't there any creature with that ability? Surely a mind flayer would have some form of counter for psionics but they don't. Now what? Do they make an errata saying mind flayers have this-that-and so-and-so traits? Do the Gith get those as well? What about mages, named ones from the adventurers already published? What about liches? And beholders?

I also think they'd need to upgrade the mind flayer's capacity for psionics too. Does it really make sense that giths, masters of psionics, have access to around 5 psionic abilities that basically perfectly mimic a spell while a player gets 15 or 20 of them each with their unique spice?

I think psionics would've been fine in 5e but now it's too late and there's too much to account for. I'd just hold out for 5.5e or 6e to have player-available psionics.

They could, you know, just pick the 20 most iconic psionic creatures and rewrite proper psionic variants of them included in whatever book has the rules for psionics.

I know they won't do that, but they could.

 

[Quickleaf]

I have a system I've been designing just for my own games. I went back to OD&D's Eldritch Wizardry and 2e's Complete Psionics, and focused on the core idea that any character could develop a psionic wild talent under the right circumstances. Here's a snapshot of how I'm handling it...

PSIONICS (QUICKLEAF'S VERSION)
Psionics are mysterious powers from the untapped regions of the mind. Whereas magic draws on an external source – the Weave, accessed by studying words of power, praying to deities, consorting with patrons, or through magical bloodlines – sages conjecture that psionics may be a form of mutation. Adventurers who come into contact with powerful aberrations (e.g. aboleths, beholders, mind flayers), who venture into certain regions of the Underdark or the Astral Plane, who undergo psychic surgery, or who suffer extreme trauma may awaken their latent psionic potential. Events during the campaign, such as exposure to specific substances/energies may also trigger a roll on the Psionic Powers table.

A few powers refer to your psionic attack or save DC. Calculate them as follows:
Psionic attack = your proficiency bonus + Intelligence, Wisdom, or Charisma modifier (choose one).
Psionic save DC = 8 + your proficiency bonus + your Intelligence/Wisdom/or Charisma modifier.

Wild Talent (feat)
You gain a randomly determined psionic power; roll on the Psionic Powers table. If you roll a ‘1’ indicating psionic madness, record that roll and apply it to to your character, but also roll again. You may take this feat multiple times.

PSIONIC POWERS

d20	Discipline	Description
1	Psionic Madness (d10)	You’ve touched the deep recesses of your mind… and something touched back.
2-6	Clairsentience (d20)	Clairsentience enables you to learn secrets long forgotten, glimpse the immediate future and predict the far future, find hidden objects, and know the unknowable.
7-9	Psychokinesis (d20)	Psychokinesis manipulates energy to move objects, melt or transform matter, and blast targets with raw energy.
10-12	Psychometabolism (d20)	Psychometabolism changes the physical properties of a creature, thing, or condition, allowing you to accomplish extraordinary physical feats.
13-15	Psychoportation (d20)	Psychoportation moves you, an object, or another creature through space and time.
16-19	Telepathy (d20)	Telepathy allows you to spy on and contact the minds of others, influencing or controlling their behavior.
20	Roll twice, or pick one	–

PSIONIC MADNESS

d10	Madness	Description
1	Aberration Link	A lasting connection was formed between you and an aberration (e.g. aboleth or mind flayer), allowing you to telepathically communicate with one another regardless of distance.
2	Hallucinations	You experience distracting hallucinations which are hard to distinguish from reality. Though they may interfere with concentration, they are only fleeting.
3	Hypersensitivity	Too much stimulus (e.g. crowds, loud noises, bright lights) overwhelms you, and your saving throws against such effects suffer disadvantage.
4	Hypnotic Suggestion	You are induced with a subconscious hypnotic trigger by some unfathomably horrific entity that will trigger at a future time.
5	Permeable Aura	After spending significant time around another person, you take on one of their roleplaying traits for a few hours. Magic and Insight checks detect that trait as if it were your own.
6	Psionic Interference	You experience bizarre dreams and you fail any attempts to communicate telepathically or understand telepathic communication. Telepathic communication used within 30 feet of you, or on someone within 30 feet of you, fails.
7	Psychic Clone	Whenever you can see your reflection, it acts as a twisted clone of yourself, its values a dark mirror of your own. This twisted clone yearns to assume physical form.
8	Psychic Vulnerability	You suffer vulnerability to psychic damage and develop a phobia of anything psionic in nature, such as aberrations, githyanki, wild talents, etc.
9	Split Personality	Your mind splits into two separate personalities, though you only have limited control when you switch between them. You and your DM can work together to determine your alternate personality’s nature.
10	Unreliable Premonitions	You have premonitions that may or may not come true, but at the time you are convinced they are inevitable.

CLAIRSENTIENCE

d20	Power	Description
1	All-Around Vision	You can see in a 360-degree circle around yourself, though this requires concentration to maintain. Creatures sneaking up on you from behind suffer disadvantage.
2	Aura Sight	You can feel the mood of a creature by concentrating intently on it for 1 minute, perceiving an outline of colors. Gain proficiency in the Insight skill if you don’t already have it.
3	Clairvoyance	As a bonus action choose a space within 60 feet that you can see; you project your vision and hearing as if you were standing there until the start of your next turn (or 6 seconds).
4	Danger Sense	By concentrating on your turn, you cannot be surprised and you know the general direction hostile creatures are coming from a few seconds in advance.
5	Detect Psionics	You can detect if a creature or object within 60 feet has psionic power by concentrating intently on it for 1 round. You also gain a sense for how strong its psionic power is.
6	Detect Spellcasters	You can detect if a creature or object within 60 feet can cast spells by concentrating intently on it for 1 round. You also gain a sense for how powerful a spellcaster it is.
7	Hypercognition	You can spend Inspiration to gain a clue from the DM that reflects your ability to perceive patterns and make deductions. If your Intelligence isn’t already 13, increase it to 13.
8	Incarnation Awareness	By concentrating intently on a dead creature within 5 feet for 1 minute, you determine how many times it has died and the general nature of its past life/lives.
9	Infravision	By concentrating on your turn, you can perceive heat signatures within 60 feet, allowing you to see any warm-blooded creatures or heat sources, even through walls. However, stone and metal (and anything else that conducts heat) blocks your infravision.
10	Know Direction	You always know true north and are immune to maze magic and effects.
11	Object Reading	When touching an object and meditating with it during a short rest, you gain a glimpse of its creation, its destruction (if destroyed), and the last creature interact with it.
12	Perceive Light	By concentrating on your turn, you can perceive light through tactile or auditory sensation, circumventing the blinded condition (provided there is ambient light).
13	Perceive Sound	By concentrating on your turn, you can perceive sound thru tactile or visual sensation, circumventing the deafened condition (provided there is ambient sound).
14	Precognition	You can spend Inspiration to learn about a future event or threat from the DM, though the DM determines the extent of the information you receive. If your Wisdom isn’t already 13, increase it to 13.
15	Radial Navigation	By concentrating on your turn, you know the direction and distance to the last fixed point that you meditated at during a short or long rest.
16	Remote Viewing	Once per long rest you can produce a psionic effect similar to the scrying spell.
17	Retrospection	During a long rest you can meditate with another creature and help it (or yourself) to regain lost memories or review old memories. The DM may call for a check.
18	Sense Aberrations	By concentrating on your turn, you become aware of the presence of any aberrations within 60 feet of you.
19	Sense Spirits	By concentrating on your turn, you become aware of the presence of any restless spirits (e.g. ghosts, haunts, specters, wraiths) within 60 feet of you.
20	Sensitivity to Psychic Impressions	By meditating in an area during a short rest, you gain a vague sense of the emotional history of the place you’re currently in (e.g. tragedy, war, madness, elation, reunion, birth).

 

[Samloyal23]

I have a system I've been designing just for my own games. I went back to OD&D's Eldritch Wizardry and 2e's Complete Psionics, and focused on the core idea that any character could develop a psionic wild talent under the right circumstances. Here's a snapshot of how I'm handling it...

PSIONICS (QUICKLEAF'S VERSION)
Psionics are mysterious powers from the untapped regions of the mind. Whereas magic draws on an external source – the Weave, accessed by studying words of power, praying to deities, consorting with patrons, or through magical bloodlines – sages conjecture that psionics may be a form of mutation. Adventurers who come into contact with powerful aberrations (e.g. aboleths, beholders, mind flayers), who venture into certain regions of the Underdark or the Astral Plane, who undergo psychic surgery, or who suffer extreme trauma may awaken their latent psionic potential. Events during the campaign, such as exposure to specific substances/energies may also trigger a roll on the Psionic Powers table.

A few powers refer to your psionic attack or save DC. Calculate them as follows:
Psionic attack = your proficiency bonus + Intelligence, Wisdom, or Charisma modifier (choose one).
Psionic save DC = 8 + your proficiency bonus + your Intelligence/Wisdom/or Charisma modifier.

Wild Talent (feat)
You gain a randomly determined psionic power; roll on the Psionic Powers table. If you roll a ‘1’ indicating psionic madness, record that roll and apply it to to your character, but also roll again. You may take this feat multiple times.

PSIONIC POWERS

d20	Discipline	Description
1	Psionic Madness (d10)	You’ve touched the deep recesses of your mind… and something touched back.
2-6	Clairsentience (d20)	Clairsentience enables you to learn secrets long forgotten, glimpse the immediate future and predict the far future, find hidden objects, and know the unknowable.
7-9	Psychokinesis (d20)	Psychokinesis manipulates energy to move objects, melt or transform matter, and blast targets with raw energy.
10-12	Psychometabolism (d20)	Psychometabolism changes the physical properties of a creature, thing, or condition, allowing you to accomplish extraordinary physical feats.
13-15	Psychoportation (d20)	Psychoportation moves you, an object, or another creature through space and time.
16-19	Telepathy (d20)	Telepathy allows you to spy on and contact the minds of others, influencing or controlling their behavior.
20	Roll twice, or pick one	–

PSIONIC MADNESS

d10	Madness	Description
1	Aberration Link	A lasting connection was formed between you and an aberration (e.g. aboleth or mind flayer), allowing you to telepathically communicate with one another regardless of distance.
2	Hallucinations	You experience distracting hallucinations which are hard to distinguish from reality. Though they may interfere with concentration, they are only fleeting.
3	Hypersensitivity	Too much stimulus (e.g. crowds, loud noises, bright lights) overwhelms you, and your saving throws against such effects suffer disadvantage.
4	Hypnotic Suggestion	You are induced with a subconscious hypnotic trigger by some unfathomably horrific entity that will trigger at a future time.
5	Permeable Aura	After spending significant time around another person, you take on one of their roleplaying traits for a few hours. Magic and Insight checks detect that trait as if it were your own.
6	Psionic Interference	You experience bizarre dreams and you fail any attempts to communicate telepathically or understand telepathic communication. Telepathic communication used within 30 feet of you, or on someone within 30 feet of you, fails.
7	Psychic Clone	Whenever you can see your reflection, it acts as a twisted clone of yourself, its values a dark mirror of your own. This twisted clone yearns to assume physical form.
8	Psychic Vulnerability	You suffer vulnerability to psychic damage and develop a phobia of anything psionic in nature, such as aberrations, githyanki, wild talents, etc.
9	Split Personality	Your mind splits into two separate personalities, though you only have limited control when you switch between them. You and your DM can work together to determine your alternate personality’s nature.
10	Unreliable Premonitions	You have premonitions that may or may not come true, but at the time you are convinced they are inevitable.

CLAIRSENTIENCE

d20	Power	Description
1	All-Around Vision	You can see in a 360-degree circle around yourself, though this requires concentration to maintain. Creatures sneaking up on you from behind suffer disadvantage.
2	Aura Sight	You can feel the mood of a creature by concentrating intently on it for 1 minute, perceiving an outline of colors. Gain proficiency in the Insight skill if you don’t already have it.
3	Clairvoyance	As a bonus action choose a space within 60 feet that you can see; you project your vision and hearing as if you were standing there until the start of your next turn (or 6 seconds).
4	Danger Sense	By concentrating on your turn, you cannot be surprised and you know the general direction hostile creatures are coming from a few seconds in advance.
5	Detect Psionics	You can detect if a creature or object within 60 feet has psionic power by concentrating intently on it for 1 round. You also gain a sense for how strong its psionic power is.
6	Detect Spellcasters	You can detect if a creature or object within 60 feet can cast spells by concentrating intently on it for 1 round. You also gain a sense for how powerful a spellcaster it is.
7	Hypercognition	You can spend Inspiration to gain a clue from the DM that reflects your ability to perceive patterns and make deductions. If your Intelligence isn’t already 13, increase it to 13.
8	Incarnation Awareness	By concentrating intently on a dead creature within 5 feet for 1 minute, you determine how many times it has died and the general nature of its past life/lives.
9	Infravision	By concentrating on your turn, you can perceive heat signatures within 60 feet, allowing you to see any warm-blooded creatures or heat sources, even through walls. However, stone and metal (and anything else that conducts heat) blocks your infravision.
10	Know Direction	You always know true north and are immune to maze magic and effects.
11	Object Reading	When touching an object and meditating with it during a short rest, you gain a glimpse of its creation, its destruction (if destroyed), and the last creature interact with it.
12	Perceive Light	By concentrating on your turn, you can perceive light through tactile or auditory sensation, circumventing the blinded condition (provided there is ambient light).
13	Perceive Sound	By concentrating on your turn, you can perceive sound thru tactile or visual sensation, circumventing the deafened condition (provided there is ambient sound).
14	Precognition	You can spend Inspiration to learn about a future event or threat from the DM, though the DM determines the extent of the information you receive. If your Wisdom isn’t already 13, increase it to 13.
15	Radial Navigation	By concentrating on your turn, you know the direction and distance to the last fixed point that you meditated at during a short or long rest.
16	Remote Viewing	Once per long rest you can produce a psionic effect similar to the scrying spell.
17	Retrospection	During a long rest you can meditate with another creature and help it (or yourself) to regain lost memories or review old memories. The DM may call for a check.
18	Sense Aberrations	By concentrating on your turn, you become aware of the presence of any aberrations within 60 feet of you.
19	Sense Spirits	By concentrating on your turn, you become aware of the presence of any restless spirits (e.g. ghosts, haunts, specters, wraiths) within 60 feet of you.
20	Sensitivity to Psychic Impressions	By meditating in an area during a short rest, you gain a vague sense of the emotional history of the place you’re currently in (e.g. tragedy, war, madness, elation, reunion, birth).

Very interesting, especially the madness option...