D&D 5E I need Rogue/Paladin/Bard MC advice please.

[Daniel Peterson]

My intent is to use the rogue for the initial skills, and the expertise in thieves' tools, then take paladin for smites, and finish off with Bard for the versatility, and the spell slots that can be used with smite. I'm thinking Swashbuckler for the increase to initiative, and I like both the college of swords, and the college of Whispers. I'm thinking a final product would be Rog3Pal2Brd15. Has anyone played anything similar to this? Does anyone have any idea as to what a good mix would be and/or where good breaks for MCing would be? Your input would be greatly appreciated. For what it's worth I'm playing Elemental Evil with an Oath of Devotion Paladin, A Ranger (whatever archetype has Horde Breaker), and a Pact of the Tome Warlock. Sometimes we have a Barbarian but that player is a bit of a flake. I like all three classes and I think the bard is the style I'm really feeling like playing the most. Because I really want the extra skills and expertise in Thieves' tools I will at the least go 3 Rogue 17 Bard. Still conflicted on what college to go with though. Fluff wise I think I'd liek the 3 classes together since I can never decide which one to play since they are my top favorites. I'm fairly new to 5e but not new to dnd at all. Thanks.

 

[Quartz]

At what level are you going to be starting? That build is going to take a long time to get going and you're going to be missing out on two ASIs. And really, are the Paladin's Smites that much better than the Rogue's Sneak Attacks?

 

[FrogReaver]

Do paladin after about 5 levels of bard. IMO

 

[Dan Chernozub]

If you are going to optimize, determine your role better. It is hard to judge/suggest ideas without understanding what are you striving to have as the result. Also important what stat generation method are you going to be using? What way acquiring magic items are you expecting?

 

[Daniel Peterson]

I think that smite would be better than rogue because with just 2 levels of paladin I would get up to 5d8 but as a rogue I’d only be going up to 5 levels which would put me at 3d6 sneak attack if I’m not mistaken. College of whispers would even it out because at level 15 for spending a bardic inspiration I could add 8d6 psychic damage which I’m pretty sure is separate from sneak attack. My role will be traps out of choice combat, quick debuffs/buffs because of my high initiative, and then damage. I plan on taking healing spells just Incase they are needed. My Dm is nice in that he has allowed us to use the role system, but if t fails us we can then opt to do point buy instead. The Dm has also told me he intends to allow us to purchase or craft magic items if we meet the requirements during downtime only. Otherwise we get what we find in the quests. In the past he has been pretty liberal in adding magic items to the loot we find.

 

[Dan Chernozub]

Basically, with any MC build you have to figure out how your dip in another class compares with just getting the benefits of normal progression with your main class.

What level are you starting on and how far are you planning to advance? You should take into consideration that you will have to play fun & efficiently through all of your career, not just the final build.

Your role is support/heal/dpr. Not a clearly defined one I might say...

So far it feels to me like Paladin is out of place in this build. MC prerequisite STR13 will not be used, you can get damage boosts from rouge and medium armour proficiency from bard. I am not even sure that the profits of a rouge dip outweigh the slower spell progression and loss of lvl9 magic secrets and the capstone. With the role defined as defined, I would probably just go for straight, focused Bard. Maybe using College of Swords?

 

[Daniel Peterson]

How does two weapon fighting work with college of swords? I’m very interested in being a blade, but unsure if I’d have to waste bonus actions on drawing/sheathing weapons. Alternatively how do the benefits compare to the additional damage from psychic blades that the college of whispers gives? I figured paladin was out of place and that with the right background and being half elf with the prodigy feat I can have expertise in thieves’ tools. So rogue is not a requirement it’s just hard to turn down charisma mod to initiative.

 

[Dan Chernozub]

Why would you need to draw/sheet weapons? IIRC you can use your weapon as a spell focus with the blade.
Whispers gives you higher damage using your inspiration but doesn't give you armour proficiency, nor a fighting style, nor an extra attack, resulting in lower defences and lower non-nova damage. Not to mention possible tactical advantages from "shoving" the opponent with the Blade Flourish. Overall Whispers are much more about being the party face than a damage dealer.
You can pick Alert Feat to get even higher initiative.

 

[Daniel Peterson]

I wasn’t sure if spells that require a material component that has an actual value, which a spell focus can’t be used for, meant you had to sheath and redraw your offhand for those specific spells. To keep stealth and use medium armor I’d have to take a feat which would make the build pretty feat heavy If I also want to take alert, which to be honest I really do want to take it. I don’t care about being the face since we have a paladin who wants to be the face. I think I am leaning towards college of swords, I think those particular spells would require me to take the war caster feat to be efficient with my actions, but I’m ok with that If I get a good red and charisma score to begin with. I plan on doing stat rolls when I get home from work.

 

[Dan Chernozub]

I wasn’t sure if spells that require a material component that has an actual value, which a spell focus can’t be used for, meant you had to sheath and redraw your offhand for those specific spells. To keep stealth and use medium armor I’d have to take a feat which would make the build pretty feat heavy If I also want to take alert, which to be honest I really do want to take it. I don’t care about being the face since we have a paladin who wants to be the face. I think I am leaning towards college of swords, I think those particular spells would require me to take the war caster feat to be efficient with my actions, but I’m ok with that If I get a good red and charisma score to begin with. I plan on doing stat rolls when I get home from work.

Well, you've said nothing about being the party scout to start with, but also you can just stick with the breastplate. It will be better than studded leather for a significant time.

I think that with your ability to use the weapon as a focus, Resilient is better than War Caster. Basically, that only gives you an advantage on casting spells without the material component and with somatic that you want to use while being in melee. (Side note - you can cause good enough damage at range). At low levels, this includes Cure Wounds (I still find Healing Word more effective for in-combat healing), Thunderwave (can be just avoided altogether) and Bestow Curse. There are a few of them here and there, but nothing groundbreaking if you just plan your spell selection taking this factor into account.

Good luck, I am off for today.