D&D 3.x I Play 3.5; Sell me on Pathfinder

[Wicht]

Fair enough! I never had problems DMing 3.5, per se; I more got burned out on it, largely after running a rather demon-centric campaign arc. It's the spell-like abilities (or, worse, actual spellcasting NPCs) that really killed me.

I had remembered plans to make this sort of stuff easier on the DM, but I might have misremembered. Oh well! It's not the first game that's not geared toward my play-style, and it won't be the last.

-O

To be fair on the other side - I 've only read fully up to page 58 of the book so there are likely changes I don't know about yet. The CMB/CMD mechanic makes adjucating combats somewhat easier and some of the changes to the skill system make statting out high level monsters easier.

 

[Voadam]

Compatibility.

I expect the changes to be similar to going from 3.0 to 3.5 or using material from d20 Modern, Arcana Evolved, Iron Heroes, Conan RPG, etc. Monsters and Modules and NPCs should all be easily useable with a few conversion mechanics if desired. In 3e to 3.5 this was mostly do you want to convert DR and bonus hp for oozes and constructs. For Pathfinder it would be recalculate grapple bonus to CMB with the lower size modifier.

 

[ggroy]

I play D&D; I've NEVER done what the "cool kids" are doing...

Of the "cool kids" I knew back in the day, most of them fit into one (or more) of the following categories these days:

- already dead
- in jail
- homeless drunks
- full-time criminals
- drug dealers
- wannabe rock stars who never made it
- drunk and/or stoned all the time

A very small number cleaned up their acts later and have stayed out of trouble.

 

[Voadam]

One nice tidbit I've heard about the final rules is buying magic items in population centers. There is still a gp limit for towns and cities, but it gives a percentage chance for items within that limit to be found and instructions for a few random items above that limit to be rolled.

This turns it into less of a total magical walmart.

 

[ruemere]

Disclaimer: based on BETA, previews and "I have it and I can answer a few questions" threads.

Pathfinder bumps class options making the core classes more interesting to play. You don't need to look for "Complete..." books to get a lot of customizations for your character.

Most painful sources of frustration for classes were addressed. Fighters became more adept at combat and a lot more resilient (they are not as easy to hit, scare or swallow/trip as before), Rogues gained more special abilities and their sneak attacks work against more opponents, Cleric melee abilities were toned down (weaker melee buffs) while alternative method of healing allows them to save on their repertoire and at the same time their domain powers became more interesting, Wizards were toned down a little (many save or die spells now come with saves, evocation spells get secondary effects, save or die effects tend to do lots of damage instead of killing outright) while gaining more options, Sorcerers mutate along their career and gain nice spell abilities.
Monks do not suck any more.
Everyone wants to play a Paladin... except for those who prefer Barbarians.
Bards, well, bards are strange beastie... some testing is definitely in order.

Creation of magic items does not make you waste your Xp. Dying inflicts negative levels instead of Xp loss. CMB (Combat Maneuver Bonus) and CMD (Combat Maneuver Defense) simplify all combat maneuvers (Swallow Whole, Grab, Trip, Disarm, Sunder, Bull rush).

Beginner level heroes get more hitpoints, higher level heroes have easier time with relaxed Massive Damage rule (50 or 1/2 hp total, whichever's higher), negatives reach lower (negative constitution score or -10l whichever's less), non melee classes get more hitipoints.

That's it off the top of my head. Some of these changes are yet to be verified by reading final version.

Regards,
Ruemere

PS. We've been playtesting PFRPG for months now. BETA version made us ditch a lot of rules supplements as they became unnecessary for balancing or spicing the game.

 

[Remathilis]

Ok, so the PCs are going to get some new toys to make their lives easier and better...

What's in it for me, the guy behind the DM screen?

I realize monster questions will be handled by the Beastiary, but there is plenty of DMing hassles I would like to see addressed.

1.) It seems the 15-min workday is already addressed via PCs have more tools to keep going. Is there other incentives to keep PCs from "Going Nova and Going Home"?

2.) What about DM prep work? Is NPC creation streamlined any (seems like it might be more work now with all the new PC class abilities)? How about XP/session, treasure generation, etc?

3.) How pervasive is the Glorian setting in the book? Is it enough to (theoretically) run a game there using only the PF book, or is it mostly used a source of namedropping (like Greyhawk was in 3.5) and buy-our-setting-book thankyouverymuch?

4.) Do they do anything to Prestige Classes (esp. the poorer ones in the DMG? like Dragon Disciple and Shadowdancer?)

5.) Is there better cross referencing, or are we back to "This causes the sickened condition, go look up what that does in your DMG!"

6.) Did the fix the "big six", and item creation in general?

Thank you for all of the PC info, btw. Its giving me a better feel for what my players might expect if I do switch...

 

[Lord Zack]

There is in fact going to be an official online rules database, so you might want to check that out.

 

[ruemere]

Ok, so the PCs are going to get some new toys to make their lives easier and better...

What's in it for me, the guy behind the DM screen?

Encounter design was changed. It's faster and easier, and it encourages bigger groups. Check Wulf Rathbane's Trailblazer previews for some goodies which streamline it even further.
BETA book also contained sample monster stats and DCs guidelines.

I realize monster questions will be handled by the Beastiary, but there is plenty of DMing hassles I would like to see addressed.

1.) It seems the 15-min workday is already addressed via PCs have more tools to keep going. Is there other incentives to keep PCs from "Going Nova and Going Home"?

Orizons/cantrips are not limited. Staves are rechargeable. Bonded items may yield additional spell slot. Most classes get additional abilities. In short, yes, the characters should last longer, though "going nova" is still a possibility... though, in my opinion, it has to do more with ineffective resource management than system deficiencies.

2.) What about DM prep work? Is NPC creation streamlined any (seems like it might be more work now with all the new PC class abilities)? How about XP/session, treasure generation, etc?

See above (and Trailblazer previews).

It's pretty easy to convert NPCs.
New skill systems makes it very easy to generate highlevel skill sets.
XP per encounter is easier to calculate.

3.) How pervasive is the Glorian setting in the book? Is it enough to (theoretically) run a game there using only the PF book, or is it mostly used a source of namedropping (like Greyhawk was in 3.5) and buy-our-setting-book thankyouverymuch?

BETA version contained no Golarion references. Same goes for final, as far as I know.

4.) Do they do anything to Prestige Classes (esp. the poorer ones in the DMG? like Dragon Disciple and Shadowdancer?)

Yes, quite a lot actually. Most of them got a bump in order to make them on the par with enhanced core classes.
For details, you may want to check Pathfinder forums, though.

5.) Is there better cross referencing, or are we back to "This causes the sickened condition, go look up what that does in your DMG!"

Two definite improvements:
- class section contains all class information
- exhaustive index at the end of the book

The BETA contained a glossary, too. Also, PFRPG aims to be a complete book, so amount of crossreferencing should be minimal.

6.) Did the fix the "big six", and item creation in general?

There were changes to the magic item creation (craft roll, no Xp expenditure) and to the "big six" in general (there are items with multiple stat bonuses, higher magic weapon bonuses allow to bypass material DR prerequisites, i.e. +4 weapon bypasses DR:Adamantine now), however one would have to check final version for specifics.

Thank you for all of the PC info, btw. Its giving me a better feel for what my players might expect if I do switch...

PFRPG does a lot of nice things for everyone. Some of those things may be deemed inadequate or insufficient, but I have yet to meet a person who finds the book to be disruptive to 3.5 campaign.


Regards,
Ruemere

 

[joela]

no

I run a 3.5 game, mostly by the book. (A handful of houserules, but no giant overhauls). I run a home-brew world, and I own a fair amount of WotC supplements.

Lets say I've seen NOTHING on Pathfinder (not necessarily true, but lets say for arguement I know nothing), no beta, no previews, nothing.

Convince me why I should convert to Pathfinder.

Personally, I won't. If you and your players are happy with 3.x and houserules, please, by all means continue to play. In fact, I'd steer you to look at Paizo's adventure paths and modules: Paizo had designed them to be "forward" compatible with the world's oldest rpg. Heck, download the free conversion docs from Paizo on advice to retrofit the APs and mods

I do recommend, though, you buy up as many 3.x PHs as you can from ebay, used book bins, etc. for any new players. There are currently no legal pdf copies available. That, or you can use the 3.x SRD and its OSC.

You won't be able to play a 3.x PC in any Pathfinder Society games, but that's irrelevant.

 

[grrtigger]

You'll probably get the best idea how different Pathfinder is from 3.5 by reading through the Pathfinder Conversion Guide, which you can download here. That gives a lot of good info about how various elements of the game are updated, including a fairly detailed races and classes section for converting existing characters, as well as a listing of feats that are new to Pathfinder.

Edit: Note that you'll still need to have the core rulebook (or check out the Pathfinder Resource Document) to actually convert your existing 3.5 characters for Pathfinder.

I think what I like best about Pathfinder is a) streamlining (such as the Combat Maneuver updates to things like grapple, etc.) so it's easier to keep the game moving, and b) updating/rebalancing of core classes, so you have more options within the core classes and there is more reason to stay in the class all the way to level 20 ... I especially like the thinking behind the capstone abilities you get at that last level