D&D General I really LOVE Stomping Goblins

[Paul Farquhar]

I'm not familiar with it. Does it include a lot of goblin stomping?

Read it, then see if you feel the same about goblin stomping.

 

[Reynard]

Right now I am divided. On one hand, they are humanoids with feelings and so on.

On the other hand they are evil little creatures in many settings.

So probably if you want them to be just cannon fodder, diplay them as demonic little creatures. Maybe have them being reproduced not by getting children, but by spawning them in some other way.

As soon as they behave like humanoids, having children and so on, killing them en masse is no fun anymore.

Right now my students are happy just killing orcs (in the essentials set). Lets see how they will behave when they see, that they are also just some humanoids who need a home.

So, goblins are pretend creatures. They only have the traits we assign them at the time we assign those traits. It seems counterproductive to imbue goblins with humanity (just to use a broad term that gets the point across) right before slaughtering them by the score, only to then worry ourselves about the ethical implications of doing so.

Simply don't imbue them with such traits. If you define them as irredeemable evil but hilariously psychotic little monsters that can only be dealt with by dismemberment, that's what thy ARE.

 

[Reynard]

Read it, then see if you feel the same about goblin stomping.

Why? Why would I want to feel differently about goblin stomping?

I have an English literature degree. I know the power of the written word. I have also been witness to and directly affected by one of the most horrific modern tragedies this country has suffered (I'll let you speculate as to which one). I know the terrible power of violence. Neither of those things has anything to do with goblins.

 

[Cadence]

So, goblins are pretend creatures. They only have the traits we assign them at the time we assign those traits. It seems counterproductive to imbue goblins with humanity (just to use a broad term that gets the point across) right before slaughtering them by the score, only to then worry ourselves about the ethical implications of doing so.

Simply don't imbue them with such traits. If you define them as irredeemable evil but hilariously psychotic little monsters that can only be dealt with by dismemberment, that's what thy ARE.

It seems to me that's fine I'm a world where that's what they are in your world - if they're analogous to, say, the Aliens in the movie of that title, it feels like you don't stop to question them.

Not that RAW is constraining, but which editions have described goblins as such by RAW? They haven't been in 3.5/PF or later, have they? Were there kingdoms of non pure chaos ones in 2e or 1

 

[Reynard]

It seems to me that's fine I'm a world where that's what they are in your world - if they're analogous to, say, the Aliens in the movie of that title, it feels like you don't stop to question them.

Not that RAW is constraining, but which editions have described goblins as such by RAW? They haven't been in 3.5/PF or later, have they? Were there kingdoms of non pure chaos ones in 2e or 1

For me, every edition. That's what they are. And all during that time I have always had goblin NPCs with quirky personalities that interacted with the party. That didn't stop them from being inherently malevolent little bastards. How could this be true? Because I declared it so. Just like you could give personality and complexity to, say, an infernal creature like an imp without compromising its nature as an evil entity, you can do the same with goblins or any other creature.

I will concede this: I do not EVER include goblin kids or infirm or whatever. They serve no purpose in my use of goblins, and if there is anything I hate in gaming is stupid DM gotcha moral quandary like asking the paladin if they are going to slaughter a bunch of kids. That doesn't mean I have to make up some convoluted ecology for goblins like they sprout for the spilled blood of trolls or anything (although I did that once just for fun), it just means that part doesn't come into play.

 

[Hexmage-EN]

Not that RAW is constraining, but which editions have described goblins as such by RAW? They haven't been in 3.5/PF or later, have they? Were there kingdoms of non pure chaos ones in 2e or 1

I know Pathfinder 2E has since made goblins into a player race, but the very first Pathfinder AP's first installment, "Burnt Offerings", featured as its first scenario an attack by goblins who sing the following:

Chase the baby, catch the pup.
Bonk the head to shut it up.
Bones be cracked, flesh be stewed,
We be goblins! You be food!

Early Pathfinder goblins weren't just bad guys. They hate and kill animals humans generally like such as dogs and horses, eat babies, set stuff on fire for fun, and then gleefully sing songs about it. They're basically gremlins (movie Gremlins, to be clear) with swords and armor who do evil for the fun of it.

 

[MNblockhead]

And when I play chess I don't mourn the fallen pawns. But then, chess isn't a role playing game in which you play an agile and deadly queen.

It isn't? I must be doing it wrong.

Maybe that's why I feel bad killing those cute horse-heads.

 

[Reynard]

I know Pathfinder 2E has since made goblins into a player race, but the very first Pathfinder AP's first installment, "Burnt Offerings", featured as its first scenario an attack by goblins who made their first appearance by singing the following:



Early Pathfinder goblins were pretty much fairy tale bad guys who hate and kill dogs and horses, eat babies, set stuff on fire, and then gleefully sing songs about it.

Pathfinder 1E goblins are best goblins! Too bad they ended up a victim of their own popularity.

 

[Hexmage-EN]

The first Tal'Dorei book depicted goblins even more vicious than the early Pathfinder ones, describing them as little more than wicked vermin that only have any sort of communities at all because hobgoblins and bugbears force it on them to use them as pawns.

The new Tal'Dorei book, in contrast, about faces and says that was all lies told by bigots and anyone who has problems with goblins is given a stern talking to, though there is a specific hobgoblin theocracy dedicated to an evil god that uses mind-control magic to make all of its goblinoid citizens evil footsoldiers for the army.

 

[Hexmage-EN]

Really, though, D&D could just shift a lot of the negative traits ascribed to goblins and orcs and whatever to certain low CR demons and make them more common as low-level enemies. It would also help give dretches and what not more personality.

Demons are pure evil without the civility that devils can have, don't reproduce, are invaders from the Abyss rather than natives of the world, and don't even really die when destroyed unless destroyed in the Abyss. Their presence in large numbers also increases the Abyss' link to a world, so wiping out incursions is also an imperative.

Edit: The only thing is I have the suspicion that putting demons in the goblins' niche might somehow end up making people want to start portraying literal demons more sympathetically, which would be bad optics for the game that once suffered under the Satanic Panic.