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I seem to be missing the point on the online CB

abyssaldeath

First Post
Is it flawed logic or looking outside the box?
It's not looking outside the box. It's flawed logic or looking in someone else's box.
Why wouldn't they push the essential line.
Because the Essentials line consists of 10 products. One of the first books that is going to come out after the Essential stuff is done is going to be reprinting 5 of the pre-E style classes with the current updates.
We are already seeing examples of essential monsters.
Essentials monsters being pretty much like regular monsters except with better formating and the MM3 math.
The essential books are formatted in a more friendly e reader and tablet format.
If they wish to go that way.
This is pretty much the only thing from Essentials that is here to stay.
 

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renau1g

First Post
The only problem I have with essentials is now Dragon material will be split even further up trying to support all the "non-essentials" classes and now all the new classes. That would be the same with any new glut of classes though so it's not essentials specific.
 

Ryujin

Legend
The only problem I have with essentials is now Dragon material will be split even further up trying to support all the "non-essentials" classes and now all the new classes. That would be the same with any new glut of classes though so it's not essentials specific.

It might serve to flesh out Dungeon and Dragon to the point that people stop complaining about their decline though.
 


UngainlyTitan

Legend
Supporter
Nonsense? I hardly think so. Given that it seems to have taken them at least 2.5 months to build something around what was already a compatible framework, how long would we be looking at for a complete rebuild in some other technology?
My point is that there is no need for a complete rebuild. There was probably a complete rebuild required for the new CB as it would appear that the rushed nature of the old CB would not cope with Essentials.
The Compendium and the CB almost certainly share server side components and the Compendium looks like its traditional ASP (which is served to the browser as HTML and javascript) and the new Character Builder is Silverlight.

So only the UI needs to be rebuilt all the server components can be re-used.
 

falcarrion

First Post
It's not looking outside the box. It's flawed logic or looking in someone else's box.
Because the Essentials line consists of 10 products. One of the first books that is going to come out after the Essential stuff is done is going to be reprinting 5 of the pre-E style classes with the current updates.
Essentials monsters being pretty much like regular monsters except with better formating and the MM3 math.

This is pretty much the only thing from Essentials that is here to stay.

Just because you disagree with me doesn't make it flawed logic.
If they reprint 5 of the pre-E style classes will this not end up under the Essential line? Just look at the Essential monsters.
 

evilref

Explorer
Just because you disagree with me doesn't make it flawed logic.
If they reprint 5 of the pre-E style classes will this not end up under the Essential line? Just look at the Essential monsters.

The time it takes to show how an argument uses flawed logic is notably longer than the time it takes to make it in the first place.

Your arguments make use of a number of rhetorical fallacies. The primary and most obvious one is the slippery slope but you’ve also gone into Post Hoc, Composition, confusing cause and effect, leaping to a conclusion, etc. All of the above done without advancing any actual supporting clauses for your conclusions. This is why it’s flawed logic (and bad reasoning for that matter).


This could be the begining to the end of the core book rules. Nothing is stopping them from stopping support for the core books and only supporting Essentials and darksun. And with the new CB, it will be very easy to do. 6 months down the line they could just say " We have decided to only support Essentials and Darksun. So all content to the core books is being removed from the website. So if you want to play 4e, buy the Essential line or subscribe to the website."

By starting with the ‘this could be’ you’re making a claim without any substantiation. You then go on to add a good deal to this hypothetical argument, again with nothing to actually support it. You’re advancing a conclusion without any causal relationship to..well, anything other than itself.
Let’s try this ‘falcarrion could be an alien. Nothing is stopping him from coming from another planet. And with advanced alien technology he could take over the world. So if you want to live, go build a nuclear bunker’.
Obviously I made it extremely implausible but the actual point follows the same line, with the same lack of supporting evidence.

So, breaking the above down.

‘Nothing is stopping them from stopping support for…’

Well they’ve made statements that they’re not going to. And they have products on their release lists for next year that would suggest the reverse. But, absolutely, nothing is stopping them from doing so. Just as nothing is stopping them from discontinuing D&D entirely, o relaunching the original chainmail rules or… There are thousands of things that they don’t have anything to ‘stop’ them from doing. Just because there’s nothing to stop a company from doing something…doesn’t mean they’re going to do it.
As for all content being removed, they’ve left 3.5 material up for..a long time. I highly doubt they’re going to remove everything for the core books. Not least as that would require removing swathes of dragon magazines which would be time consuming and reduce the value of their products.
They’re also still selling the books, so they’d have to write them down as a loss. Which companies can do…but they don’t like doing it unless there’s a tax reason to do so. All in all this paragraph is notably flawed.


Lets face it. If the CB was revamped to handle Essentials thats the line they are going to push. And all the core book stuff will gather dust. Like your 3.5, 3.0, 2nd ed, and AD&D 1 ed. A flick of the wrist and no more support for the core books.

Once again you’re making rhetorical fallacies. Second sentence you begin with ‘If’. ‘If the earth is flat, then I would walk off the end of it’. Here we have an unsubstantiated proposition which you then use to draw your conclusion. What’s more the cause does not follow the effect.
And the rest of the paragraph continues in a similar manner.


So be smart and down load the CB as it is now and store it. It may very well be the last Core rules stuff you will see. From here on out support for Essentials will be there main focus.

A nice dose of appeal to fear and again an unsupported conclusion.

I’m not going to touch the second post as it didn’t actually support your argument, just made some unrelated statements.


And the above is why I argued you were using flawed logic. I should have made a stronger argument about the excess of rhetorical fallacies but I was focused on the logical flaws initially.
 

falcarrion

First Post
What you call flawed logic could very well happen.
Logicaly a bumble bee should not be able to fly but it does.
You can write a 200 page report of why my logic is flawed, but that doesn't mean it is. It is what it is, a possability.
 

renau1g

First Post
Well he is right to download it now if you want it because they (wotc) did say they wouldn't offer it as a download once the new builder goes live.
 


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