D&D 5E I still want D&D and Beyond, but...

[Art Waring]

That could be, but I hope your wrong. The fact that it has already been delayed says something I would guess.

Ultimately, it doesn't really matter for me and my group. We can play our version of 5e for as long as we want and not buy another thing from WotC if that is the way we want to go. But right now it hurts.

Hopefully there will be some light at the end of the tunnel.

Personally, I have spent the last three days making my own rpg from scratch, and its been really a liberating experience not to be bound by the OGL, the natural wording, or any of the other trappings of making OGL compatible material.

I'm free to go about it any way I want, instead of using classes and archetypes I can make something completely different, and its actually fun. Just my personal experience.

 

[dave2008]

Hopefully there will be some light at the end of the tunnel.

Personally, I have spent the last three days making my own rpg from scratch, and its been really a liberating experience not to be bound by the OGL, the natural wording, or any of the other trappings of making OGL compatible material.

I'm free to go about it any way I want, instead of using classes and archetypes I can make something completely different, and its actually fun. Just my personal experience.

I can understand that. However, I've never been bound by the OGL as I don't create things I intend to sell (generally). So its loss doesn't really free up any creativity for me.

The issue for me is not what I can personally do, but the impact on the D&D community and to some extent that communities response.

PS - I've started my own system several times. But I've had a lot more fun and creativity riffing off 5e than any other time in my RPG life.

 

[bedir than]

It's not misinformation.

In a video seminar for investors, WotC CEO Cynthia Williams said that D&D has never been as prominent as it is now, but that it's under monetized. Yes, she talked about licensing the D&D brand as part of the solution for that. But, another part of the solution was to create a recurrent spending environment to get players to spend more money. I have no idea how near to each other those statements are in terms of minutes, but that doesn't matter. The whole presentation was about how to make more money off of D&D, and creating a recurrent spending environment was presented as a way to do that.

Ah, my bad. Malinformation, using information that is partially true in a manner to create a false impression rather than using misinformation. Thank you for that correction.

It's still a dishonest presentation of the massive call. No one at Hasbro is stupid enough to think 99 cent feats are the path to a billion when compared to a midlevel success of their movie and the tv show that was likely sold for 9 figures.

 

[Art Waring]

I can understand that. However, I've never been bound by the OGL as I don't create things I intend to sell (generally). So its loss doesn't really free up any creativity for me.

The issue for me is not what I can personally do, but the impact on the D&D community and to some extent that communities response.

That I do understand. I was just trying to detail what has helped me cope with the recent developments.

The community is more unified right now than it has been in a long time, there may be individual arguments, but overall I haven't ever seen this many people against a new NOGL/ GSL 2.0.

I was also not happy with the 4e GSL and went over to pathfinder for a while in response. It might hurt now, but it might be for the better in the long run.

 

[dave2008]

I think that they are deliberately staying silent until the 13th to see just how many companies sign the new agreement

If I understood the leaks correctly the 13th was the date the OGL 1.1 needed to be signed-by to those it was sent under NDA. It was supposed to release to the public on 1/4/2023. The fact that we are a week past that gives me some hope, I mean it can't really get any worse can it!

 

[Sacrosanct]

As a publisher, and based on what I've heard from other publishers I've talked to, nearly to a person we've all agreed that even if WoTC keeps the original OGL and doesn't make this change to 1.1, the trust is gone. And we'll be moving forward without either. None of us will use 1.1. At this point I have to think the lawyers and brass at Hasbro knew they would make 1.1 so toxic that no one would agree to it, and that was the point. I.e., a way for them to take control of their IP (and perhaps even more than what they legally could control).

Think about it for a sec. The reporting and royalties are bad, but they aren't the poison pill. That's the "we take your creation and own it, and we can end your license with 30 days notice." I can't think of any other industry that would do that. Imagine if 30 days after Star Wars, Knights of the Old Republic game was finished (even before it hit distribution), Lucas said "Great game Bioware! Now we own it, and you can't sell it. Don't worry, we'll sell it instead."

Bonkers.

 

[Art Waring]

If I understood the leaks correctly the 13th was the date the OGL 1.1 needed to be signed-by to those it was sent under NDA. It was supposed to release to the public on 1/4/2023. The fact that we are a week past that gives me some hope, I mean it can't really get any worse can it!

Exactly. I think we have heard the worst of it, the rest is coming to terms with the facts, and trying to find a path forward through the wake.

 

[dave2008]

As a publisher, and based on what I've heard from other publishers I've talked to, nearly to a person we've all agreed that even if WoTC keeps the original OGL and doesn't make this change to 1.1, the trust is gone. And we'll be moving forward without either. None of us will use 1.1. At this point I have to think the lawyers and brass at Hasbro knew they would make 1.1 so toxic that no one would agree to it, and that was the point. I.e., a way for them to take control of their IP (and perhaps even more than what they legally could control).

Think about it for a sec. The reporting and royalties are bad, but they aren't the poison pill. That's the "we take your creation and own it, and we can end your license with 30 days notice." I can't think of any other industry that would do that. Imagine if 30 days after Star Wars, Knights of the Old Republic came was finished (even before it hit distribution), Lucas said "Great game Bioware! Now we own it, and you can't sell it. Don't worry, we'll sell it instead."

Bonkers.

Would they gain your trust if they released a OGL 1.0(b) the included that it was "irrevocable"?

PS - I just got Twilight Fables in the mail. I didn't really order the physical book, just the PDF and then some extra as a gift, but it is really great - thank you!

 

[Sacrosanct]

Would the gain your trust if the released a OGL 1.0(b) the included that it was "irrevocable"?

It would give more of a sense of ease. But trust? That's shot. It would take a lot to build that back up. New leadership for one.

PS - I just got Twilight Fables in the mail. I didn't really order the physical book, just the PDF and then some extra as a gift, but it is really great - thank you!

Thank you! I'm glad you like it.

 

[payn]

This is some of the misinformation that I find harmful and disappointing. The call was clear and specific about where D&D was undermonetized -- movies, tv shows, licensed goods, lifestyle. They spoke at length to those things.

Then the internet connects two statements that didn't occur anywhere near each other and goes into a rage

At first yes, it seemed like they meant other avenues like film and t-shirts whatever. They still do. Though, the VTT went from a new product in the market to being likely the only product available. They are trying to squeeze blood from a stone and folks are trying to dismiss it as misidentification because its really only about movies and comics.