D&D 5E I still want D&D and Beyond, but...

[Velderan]

Yep, welcome to digital, where a file sitting on a server somewhere, makes massive mounts of passive cash, that the dead tree version's cannot possibly meet the margins on due to, well, being a dead tree version.

Greatest scam of all time?

They're at least pretty upfront when you go to check out that the content is for use on DDB. I think most people today would assume you get a PDF otherwise.

 

[Scribe]

They're at least pretty upfront when you go to check out that the content is for use on DDB. I think most people today would assume you get a PDF otherwise.

View attachment 272107

Yeah, open about it is well and good, I just prefer physical goods that I actually own.

 

[Velderan]

Yeah, open about it is well and good, I just prefer physical goods that I actually own.

There's a reason I only buy small indy games digitally on my Playstation and Switch and stick to physical releases for everything else, so I'm in the same boat mostly. I've double dipped on some 5e content since my table switched to Roll20 at the beginning of the pandemic and unfortunately got too comfortable there to switch back to in-person.

 

[pukunui]

I hear you, @dave2008. I am feeling similar feelings and for similar reasons.

While I started with 2e back in the 90s, I think 5e is the edition I've played the longest. I've invested so much time, energy, and creativity (not to mention money) into this edition (and DDB) to give up on it so suddenly ... and I feel bad about that.

I would also add that I am also feeling a measure of guilt because I am not a big 3PP supporter. I keep thinking of that guy in the Matrix who betrays the others because that illusory steak tastes so good.

 

[Stormonu]

Yep, welcome to digital, where a file sitting on a server somewhere, makes massive mounts of passive cash, that the dead tree version's cannot possibly meet the margins on due to, well, being a dead tree version.

Greatest scam of all time?

Scam? Nah, the books are better money makers. One-time cost for materials and manpower to put it together.

Electronic file? Gotta pay for the domain, hardware (which ain’t cheap), website/software (which is often licensed by year) <Edit: and electricity> and IT staff on an ongoing basis. The longer you house it, the more money you lose.

 

[schneeland]

Greatest scam of all time?

I wouldn't completely rank it as scam, but IMO it's clearly a practice of purposefully blurring the borders between renting and buying.
In a way, a subscription service feels like the much more honest model to me for such things. Specifically for D&D Beyond I can say that I would have subscribed at least for the time in which I was actively playing.

 

[SkidAce]

There's no artist here, so that's not a good analogy.

This is a corporate product.

No.

Even if we take the metaphor, the artist and his patron are the same exact person. You're also completely mixing your metaphor when you're suddenly talking about "artists" plural out of nowhere, when what you actually mean is "employees". The vast majority of whom have absolutely no creative role whatsoever, so calling them "artists" on any level is bizarre.

I followed their analogy and understood their point.

I mean technically you may be right, but it felt a little harsh.

No worries, game on.

 

[Reynard]

Scam? Nah, the books are better money makers. One-time cost for materials and manpower to put it together.

Electronic file? Gotta pay for the domain, hardware (which ain’t cheap), website/software (which is often licensed by year) <Edit: and electricity> and IT staff on an ongoing basis. The longer you house it, the more money you lose.

This sounds wrong to me but I don't actually know. What are printing and warehousing costs compared to the tech costs.

 

[The Scythian]

There is already a recurrent spending environment it just isn’t owned by WoTC. I pay a monthly roll20 subscription and about £20 a month on patreons.

There is plenty of recurrent spending none of it goes to WoTC though because of the OGL.

I don't use D&D Beyond, so I'm not very familiar with it, but isn't it a platform entirely built around recurrent spending? I'm not sure what benefits subscribers get, but I've seen people talking about subscriptions, so I know people do subscribe. I think that they offer D&D Beyond versions of books for sale, packages of game elements from those books (like spells or classes), or the same sorts of things a la carte (like individual feats or backgrounds). I'm assuming they sell other things, like DM tools or fancier virtual character sheets or whatever.

All of that is recurrent spending, and since WotC spent blockbuster movie money (~$150 million) to buy D&D Beyond, all of that recurrent spending goes to them now. So, while it may be true that none of your recurrent spending goes to WotC, plenty of recurrent spending does. That is despite the existence of the OGL.

But that's not all. WotC are currently in the process of creating their own proprietary VTT, which will not only have graphics beyond what any other VTT will be able to offer but will also enjoy official support. It's going to completely dominate the market and make WotC a ridiculous amount of money. The OGL is not really a meaningful impediment to that.

 

[dave2008]

I don't use D&D Beyond, so I'm not very familiar with it, but isn't it a platform entirely built around recurrent spending? I'm not sure what benefits subscribers get, but I've seen people talking about subscriptions, so I know people do subscribe. I think that they offer D&D Beyond versions of books for sale, packages of game elements from those books (like spells or classes), or the same sorts of things a la carte (like individual feats or backgrounds). I'm assuming they sell other things, like DM tools or fancier virtual character sheets or whatever.

All of that is recurrent spending, and since WotC spent blockbuster movie money (~$150 million) to buy D&D Beyond, all of that recurrent spending goes to them now. So, while it may be true that none of your recurrent spending goes to WotC, plenty of recurrent spending does. That is despite the existence of the OGL.

But that's not all. WotC are currently in the process of creating their own proprietary VTT, which will not only have graphics beyond what any other VTT will be able to offer but will also enjoy official support. It's going to completely dominate the market and make WotC a ridiculous amount of money. The OGL is not really a meaningful impediment to that.

You can have a free subscription to DND Beyond (I do), which has no recurrent fees. This gives you access to the basic rules and SRD, articles, free monsters (like spelljammer and dragonlance), other free goodies, and a ton of homebrew content. I don't know if it includes the encounter builder as I have never used that tool. You can of course buy stuff too if you want (which I do), but that is no more recurrent than buying the physical books (which I haven't until the DL bundle).